STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We've been talking with one of the more interesting governors in the country right now - Jared Polis of Colorado. As President-elect Trump prepares to take office, Polis joined the governor of Illinois to establish a group to fend off threats of autocracy and strengthen democracy.
JARED POLIS: Many Coloradans feel under assault from a potential Trump administration. Whether they're members of the LGBTQ community, whether they're immigrants, I want to make sure that people know that Colorado is a place for everybody.
INSKEEP: But Polis has done something else. He's made some statements that dismayed his fellow Democrats, such as when he spoke favorably of Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a Trump nominee who questions vaccine science. We found Governor Polis in Las Vegas this week at a meeting of Western Governors, and he offered a mixed view of the new president.
POLIS: We don't know exactly what the new administration's going to do, right? There's this huge range. Obviously, I'm very critical of 25% tariffs with - or any tariff - with especially Mexico and Canada, our two largest trading partners. This would be devastating for Colorado, devastating for consumers who would be forced to pay 25% more for everyday products, devastating for housing and construction because a lot of our timber comes from Canada, but also devastating for American manufacturing because these are two of our largest export markets, and they would put retaliatory tariffs back on us. So I'll be as outspoken as I can about the damage and harm that would be caused by a trade war.
INSKEEP: What prompted you to speak positively about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. when he was nominated to lead the Department of Health and Human Services?
POLIS: Last time Donald Trump was president, he appointed a pharmaceutical lobbyist, Alex Azar, to be head of that agency. In my opinion, that was really the fox guarding the henhouse. Whatever RFK is and isn't, he's certainly not a pharmaceutical lobbyist. So I think having somebody there that has some independence is better than the alternative.
INSKEEP: Do you believe that RFK Jr., having brought that independence to the table, will then respond to facts and science?
POLIS: Well, I think that's really what'll hopefully come out during this confirmation process, right? Everybody has personal viewpoints, and he has some that are unscientific and inaccurate. Are those personal viewpoints going to color his leadership at the agency, or is he going to do what he said he's going to do, which is really focus on chronic health, nutrition, a lot of these issues where we can find more common ground?
INSKEEP: Was he right about vaccines in some way?
POLIS: Well, I don't know - you know, he said stuff all over the place. I personally, of course, am a big supporter of vaccines as a way to improve public health to save lives. I'm fully vaccinated. Colorado led the way in COVID vaccination - one of the reasons we had the ninth-lowest death rate of any state. But obviously, people make their own decisions. I value individual freedom and choice, and, you know, in Colorado, it's certainly a choice.
INSKEEP: You also were very critical of President Biden for pardoning his son, Hunter. What made you feel you needed to speak out about that?
POLIS: I certainly understand where he's coming from as a father. I'm a father, too. But I think it certainly diminishes his legacy to do that for his own son. I mean, I have the power of pardon as governor. I use it judiciously. You know, these are not people that I know or associate with. They're certainly not my own family that I'm pardoning. So, I mean, I look at real reasons for these pardons, and I do a handful every year, and it's a very serious responsibility that we have. And you know, I don't think it should be taken lightly.
INSKEEP: Do you assume there is a real risk that the new administration will go after its political enemies as President Trump from time to time has suggested he would?
POLIS: Well, I mean, we have a criminal justice system. So, I mean, you know, whether somebody's political viewpoints are pro-Trump or anti-Trump, if they violate the law, they violate the law. I mean, you get prosecuted independent of your political viewpoints. So I believe in a fair and impartial justice system, and I think that's a very important precedent that this country has, and it's something that we should fight to protect.
INSKEEP: The president-elect said the other day that members of the January 6 Committee, which looked into the attack on the Capitol in 2021, should be in jail. He did not say that he would order them to be investigated but then spoke as if he expected his new FBI director to do that anyway.
POLIS: Well, I'm not aware of any crimes that those members of Congress that were on that committee did. Obviously, if they did any crime, if they robbed a bank, they would be just as responsible as anybody else, whether they were on that committee or not. So, I mean, obviously, the act of being on the committee is an official act of being in Congress. There's no criminal ramifications for that.
INSKEEP: The president is being urged to pardon large numbers of people. Liz Cheney comes to mind, who was a member of that committee. Mark Milley, the retired general chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If President Biden called you up and asked you for advice about that, what would you tell him?
POLIS: I know there's a lot of talk about this, but I don't understand exactly what they would be pardoned from.
INSKEEP: Do you have confidence that the criminal justice system would not produce some show trial or conviction about nothing, a political conviction?
POLIS: Look, I mean, you - there could be frivolous lawsuits, right? This happens sadly in civil law, and it shouldn't happen as often in criminal law 'cause we have a higher burden of proof, obviously, beyond a reasonable doubt.
INSKEEP: It sounds like you have confidence that the system will hold.
POLIS: I believe in the American justice system. Absolutely. We should always aspire to make it better and more impartial and less political, and I hope that we continue to improve our justice system.
INSKEEP: Governor, thanks. Appreciate your time.
POLIS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
