STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
As we've been reporting, Iowa removed transgender and nonbinary people as a protected group in the state civil rights law. Governor Kim Reynolds signed a bill last week, striking the words gender identity from that law. She says the language blurred the lines between the sexes.
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KIM REYNOLDS: What this bill does accomplish is to strengthen protections for women and girls, and I believe that it is the right thing to do.
INSKEEP: She said that this provides protections for women in sports and in restrooms. So what's it mean for people who lose that language? Our colleague Leila Fadel spoke with Matt McIver, a parent of a transgender teen in Des Moines.
LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: You know, I remember speaking to you two years ago when Governor Reynolds panned gender-affirming care for trans minors, and you had met with her to try to persuade her not to sign that bill into law. And now there is this rollback in the civil rights law, meaning your child is no longer protected under it. What do you make of her comment that this is about protecting women and girls?
MATT MCIVER: It's the smallest kind of fig leaf, Leila. It is an excuse to persecute an ongoing attack on a vulnerable community. If they were actually interested in helping women, they would be doing something about Iowa's rising maternal mortality rate. They wouldn't pass a six-week abortion ban, which puts women's lives in danger. There's any number of ways in which they could actually help women if they were interested in that, but it's not something that they're genuinely interested in doing. It's an excuse.
FADEL: It feels like persecution?
MCIVER: I think it's more than feels at this point. If our rights are not rights for everyone, they are simply privileges that are granted to in groups. This is an attack on the fundamental rights of Iowans, and it is an attack that undermines our states motto, which is our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain.
FADEL: If you could just break down for people what it means when a group of people is removed as a protected class from the civil rights law in Iowa. What does that mean for Iowans who are transgender, who were once protected, who are now not?
MCIVER: It means that you can be evicted from your apartment simply for being transgender or being believed to be transgender. It means you can be denied a credit card simply for being transgender or being believed to be transgender. It means you can be fired from a job for being transgender or being believed to be transgender. You do not have the fundamental protections that we expect in a civil society. It's a horrifying thing that they did and it has nothing to do with sports. If you look at athletes, transgender athletes are something like 0.001% of NCAA athletes. It's a ridiculously small number, and as a result, they are an easier target than many other groups that have better representation.
FADEL: How's your family doing? How's your son doing?
MCIVER: I appreciate that. We have two LGBTQ kids. It's upsetting and distressing for the kids, for sure. But I'm not as worried about my kids. My wife and I will make sure that our kids are fine. There are lots of kids who aren't going to have the luxury of knowing that.
FADEL: I mean, I don't know if you want to share this, but how old is your son?
MCIVER: Teenage years.
FADEL: Teenage...
MCIVER: Yeah.
FADEL: ...Years. OK. If you feel comfortable, was there a conversation after this happened, and what was that conversation?
MCIVER: I'm going to keep this a little bit vague, Leila, just because...
FADEL: Sure.
MCIVER: ...This is a less safe state than it was even when you and I spoke two years ago.
FADEL: So you don't even feel safe being really specific about this conversation because of the laws?
MCIVER: I would say that, yes. I'm comfortable talking to you. I'm a person who checks pretty much every box of privilege that there is, but I know, for a fact, that this is a less safe place for LGBTQ folks, and I would like to be a little bit protective.
FADEL: So you're scared for your child?
MCIVER: I am.
FADEL: And then you said you're going to be a bit vague, but is there - do you want to share anything within that vague sort of comfortable category?
MCIVER: Yeah. I appreciate that. I said that this is awful. I said that it's wrong. I said that we're going to keep fighting. But I told them, pardon the language, but it sucks. I don't know if I can say that. But I used to think that once rights were secured, they were safe, but we've seen that that's not true in this country. That there are people who will try and strip away rights from others to make themselves, I don't know, feel big, feel better, and we have to continue to fight for the rights of everyone, because once we start stripping away rights from someone, no one is safe.
FADEL: Matt McIver of Des Moines, Iowa - a parent. Thank you so much for your time.
MCIVER: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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