LEILA FADEL, HOST:
What is Russia's view of the shifting U.S. policy toward its ally Ukraine? A Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, says it aligns pretty closely with Russia's vision. The statement comes after an explosive meeting at the White House between President Trump and Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. It was supposed to end with the signing of a deal to co-develop Ukraine's rare earth minerals. That didn't happen.
Now the U.K., France and Ukraine are rushing to create an alternative deal to President Trump's, with more security guarantees. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says they will then present their plan to the United States. Here's how he closed an emergency meeting of European leaders yesterday.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
KEIR STARMER: We are at a crossroads in history today. This is not a moment for more talk. It's time to act, time to step up and lead and to unite around a new plan for a just and enduring piece.
FADEL: For insight into how all of this is being viewed from Russia, we're joined by Nina Khrushcheva. She's a professor of international affairs at the New School in New York City and the great granddaughter of Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev. Good morning.
NINA KHRUSHCHEV: Good morning.
FADEL: I want to start with what you think the Kremlin was thinking as President Trump and Vice President JD Vance berated Zelenskyy in the White House.
KHRUSHCHEV: Well, the Kremlin is ecstatic. The Kremlin didn't even have to do anything this time around, and the West is being suddenly ripped apart and Zelenskyy, who the Kremlin obviously doesn't like and thinks an enemy, is being berated by the United States, by Donald Trump, who the Kremlin does like. So it does seem that it's a great dream of any KGB operative to see the West unraveling this way without even having to lift a finger in this particular moment.
What real results - will they be actual real results, actual results for the war ending? It's not clear how well it's going to play out in the Kremlin. But in terms of clandestine operation or not clandestine operation, but useful for Putin in seeing the West divided, it's a very good day.
FADEL: Let's talk about the actual deal that President Trump has been pushing for, this rare minerals' deal. Now, the argument is that this deal would prevent further Russian aggression in Ukraine, because the U.S. would have a significant economic investment there. What do you make of that argument?
KHRUSHCHEV: Well, it is possible that that's the case. I mean, imagining that the Russians are going to attack American workers is, at this point at least, inconceivable. So from an economic standpoint, potentially, Trump does have a point. And Trump does think in terms of economy, in terms of large cooperation, in terms of the leader of that cooperation, So his assessments are much less political and much more political economy, in a sense.
So it is potentially viable, but obviously Ukraine does want to have much greater guarantees than just economic workers or engineers on the ground in Ukraine.
FADEL: Now, one of the big criticisms of this effort by President Trump to get a deal done with Russia is that he's making concessions to Russia before negotiations have begun, and that includes reports that the Pentagon is stopping offensive cyber operations against Russia. What is Putin's take right now on this rare minerals' deal with the - between the U.S. and Ukraine and U.S. moves, like what we're seeing from the Pentagon?
KHRUSHCHEV: Well, what we saw with the mineral deals is that Putin very quickly himself said that Russia has rare earth metals and it's much larger territory and therefore, if we're interested in economic cooperation, obviously, we can suggest that Russia also could be a partner. And I think that's what also Trump wants and Trump likes is because he can get money from Russia if that works out.
And Russia is big and Russia can offer something economically. But with Ukraine, Trump feels he needs to give, and he doesn't like giving, obviously, as a once again, leader or cooperation. In terms of all these other concessions that are being made, they're a bit beyond me because it does seem that even if you are favorable towards Russia, there's still long-term interests of the United States here.
And cybersecurity is important, and we heard that yes, of course, cybersecurity is the American priority. At the same time, there must be some sort of conversation in terms of Russia is not going to cyberattack anything, and so the United States is going to be reciprocal, but that's - we don't know - I don't know the details of this. And also, I would be very careful, actually, trusting Vladimir Putin in any promises if they just made informally.
FADEL: I want to talk about the European's alternative deal. I mean, they're suggesting British and European peacekeeping troops in Ukraine. Would this be a deal breaker for Putin?
KHRUSHCHEV: So far, he said that it will be. But what's interesting is that it seems that the ultimate agreement in London wasn't that different from what Trump, although very kind of discombobulatedly, offered, that first it's the ceasefire and then we'll think about other security guarantees. So, in some ways, actually, we heard Mark Rutte, the General Secretary of NATO, almost saying the same thing.
Emmanuel Macron said there will be ceasefire and in a month they will be peacekeepers. So we'll see how they might agree on the peacekeeping. It could be a deal breaker, or Trump can actually push it towards Putin if Putin gets other concessions.
FADEL: And really quickly, I mean, you mentioned that Putin likes Trump and Trump has positioned himself as a mediator to end Russia's war in Ukraine. Do you think this is what Russia wanted all along?
KHRUSHCHEV: Putin is a - he waits. He's very carefully waiting for things to break down. And that's exactly what has been happening. It's been three years of war. Trump comes in and now there's an entirely different Western outlook on this war and that's what Putin has been waiting for.
FADEL: Nina Khrushcheva is a professor of international affairs at the New School. Thank you for joining the program.
KHRUSHCHEV: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
