Jill Winger who, for the past 10 years, has helped thousands of families learn how to grow their own food, ditch the grocery store, and live the Old-Fashioned on Purpose lifestyle. She teaches techniques to help folks weed less, water less, and harvest more! Her new book is titled, "Old-Fashioned on Purpose - Cultivating a Slower, More Joyful Life" ~~~ The new documentary Joan Baez I am a Noise takes a look at her 60 plus year career as a singer/songwriter and activist. We reair a conversation from 2009 when an episode of American Masters marked 50 years of making music. ~~~ Sue Balcom is here for this week’s Main Street Eats on farming folklore and weather predictions. ~~~ Tom Isern shares a Plains Folk essay, A Game Bird in the Best Sense.
Jill Winger (transcript)
Main Street
For more than a decade, Jill Winger has helped thousands of families live the old fashioned on purpose lifestyle by growing her own food, ditching the grocery store and creating a more satisfying life through modern homesteading. She is the creator of the Prairie Homestead and her second book, Old Fashioned on Purpose, published by HarperCollins, has just been released. Jill, it's great to visit with you again and welcome to Main Street.
Jill Winger
I am so excited to chat, Craig. Thanks for having me.
Main Street
Jill Your first book was the Prairie Homestead Cookbook Simple Recipes for Heritage Cooking in Any Kitchen. And now you've got a second book out. What's it about?
Jill Winger
Yeah, so this is a little different. It's not a cookbook. It's in essence distilling down what the pieces of homesteading that have changed my life over the years. And I wanted to be able to bring them to a larger audience. The people that may not have been able to move to Wyoming and buy a cow like I did and help, but I want them to be able to experience all the benefits of this old fashioned lifestyle.
Main Street
Jill, you didn't grow up on a ranch. How did you end up where you are?
Jill Winger
Yeah, I did not grow up on a farm or a ranch. It was very much a typical 90s kid in a small housing development. I think the story kind of began. I've always had a strange propensity towards old fashioned living in rural life. I just I think it was part of me since the day I was born. So I just started chasing that when I left home at age 18. And then when I met my husband and we started looking for our first home, we knew we didn't want to live like everyone else. We didn't know what that meant, but we wanted to do something different. And so that became this idea to buy an old fixer upper out in the middle of nowhere on the prairie, and that became our homestead.
Main Street
I can attest. Jill, your home is in the middle of nowhere on the prairie.
Jill Winger
Yes. You purchased this rundown place and you then started thinking, what could we do to give back, to give back to your your family and the community.
Main Street
Walk us through then how this - your brand, the Prairie Homestead came to be.
Jill Winger
Yes. So when we did finally sign on the dotted line for that mortgage, it was the first time in my life where I had considered the idea of becoming a producer, not just a consumer. And we're so geared in our modern culture to just consume and consume, can consume. And so that was that first time that idea hit me. And as I started to chase it in my own life and I experienced so much and satisfaction from it, I couldn't help but tell it to other tell it, tell other people about it. And so I started my blog, which was really more of a personal journal. And as people started to take notice and asked me questions and I started to see there were other people just as passionate as I was about these ideas that morphed into what has now become my family's full time business, where I get to not only live this lifestyle that I love, but I get to teach other people how to do it, how to cook from scratch, how to grow their own food, how to milk a cow. And so it's kind of a strange juxtaposition where I'm living these old fashioned principles, but I'm also talking about it on YouTube and on podcasts and with technology. But it works for some reason.
Main Street
You have written on your website seven Lessons Your Children Have Learned from the Homestead Life. Your kids are as involved in this, it seems to me, as you are.
Jill Winger
Yes, really! Since day one, we bought the homestead a year or two before we had our first child. And so they have been out doing the things with us from the very beginning, which has been such a gift for both us and them. And I really can't imagine raising kids any other way. That just teaches a lot of lessons that it honestly makes parenting a little bit easier because the homestead and the animals and nature gives lots of opportunity for life lessons that I don't have to set up necessarily as the mom. So it's fun to see them grow into it.
Main Street
And you talk about not even really needing what many consider, quote unquote, entertainment for your kids, right?
Jill Winger
Yes. It's it's fascinating to see them engage in the world around them. You know, we are pretty conscious of of technology time. We do have screens. We do have TV and they are allowed to use those on a limited basis. But I have found when we do limit that and that kind of forces them in a way to be outside more and to engage in their world around them, it just makes them more curious and more excited and they don't need the same type of entertainment that I see. Maybe their peers needing that constant stimulation. My kids are able to kind of go find it on their own, which I think is really important.
Main Street
All right. Give me an on the air audio tour, Jill, of the ranch, just like you did a few years ago when you walked me around, all of the different things that you grow and what you sustain on your ranch.
Jill Winger
Yeah, absolutely. So we have 67 acres here on our homestead. We actually lease more ground a couple miles down the road from a big neighboring ranch. But our own property is just the 60 plus acres. So we have a couple growing spaces for our vegetables, which is definitely, I would say, the most challenging part of what we do because Wyoming, vegetables, high plains, you know, you know the drill. It's not easy, but we have a fairly large raised bed garden, which has 24 by eight beds where I grow pretty much your typical vegetables, the potatoes, the onions, the carrots, beets, lots of tomatoes, squash. And then we built a greenhouse a couple of years ago. That gives me a little bit of a leg up in our very short, volatile climate where I can extend my season a little bit. So I play with melons and peppers and some of those warmer crops out there.
Main Street
Jill, real quickly, I want to ask you about the greenhouse, because the last time you and I talked about this, you were investigating whether or not there were some geothermal opportunities to make that even extend into the fringes of of winter or very early spring. Has that worked out or is it just really difficult to do?
Jill Winger
Well, that's a great question. We are still open to that idea. We actually ended up when we were going to start the geothermal process. I think we I think it's doable for us. I think we could get it done. We ended up investing our time into some more community initiatives which have taken up a lot of our focus. So we had to divert some of our energy into our little community for a while. And then I think we'll come back to that general thermal idea a little bit down the road once we are able to regroup a little bit.
Main Street
What mistakes have you made, Jill, in this journey?
Jill Winger
Oh, so many. So many. Oh, where do I even start? I think trying to grow things that don't want to grow here is a big one. Trying to force things. And instead of letting nature be my guide and tell me what it wants. I've made the mistake of seeing my garden, especially I made a lot of mistakes in the garden. I'd say more than anything, I've made animals animal mistakes too, but lots of garden mistakes. I think seeing nature is something that is just there for me to take from instead of having more of a synergy and more of a relationship with it was one of my big kind of mindset mistakes that I made for a number of years. And I've really started to kind of adjust that lately, which has made my garden happier and made me enjoy the process more. I've accidentally poisoned my soil with contaminated mulch. That was a big a big no no, that I'm still dealing with the repercussions of that. So yeah, I'm the type of personality who I'd rather dive in and figure it out as I go than to try to over prep ahead of time. So with that, I get a lot of things done, but I also have some mess ups On occasion.
Main Street
You try to eliminate trips to the grocery store. Are you able to fully do that? Jill?
Jill Winger
No, we still do visit the grocery store. I'd say twice a month on average. We're able to grow quite a bit. We all of our own meat, I'd say about 50% of our vegetables. About 50% of our dairy, all of our own eggs. But there's still things like fruit and flour and sugar, salt that I'm still buying elsewhere. And I find other vendors where I'm like, I have an organic food co-op that a truck comes to my house once a month and delivers some of those things. So I'm not necessarily going to Walmart all the time, but there are things we still buy.
Main Street
What are the biggest challenges that people come to you with who want to adapt your homestead lifestyle?
Jill Winger
I think time is always one of the biggest roadblocks for people. See what I do and they automatically go, Oh my gosh, that must take eight hours a day. And I work a full time job and I don't know how I would do that. And I'd just like to reassure people that it's really not an all or nothing venture. It is do what you can with what you have. And even if you're just making a from scratch meal once a week or you're planting a few pots on your patio and growing tomatoes or squash, that's something. And it matters and it adds up. So it doesn't have to be a 10 to 12 hour a day pursuit. It can just be a little bits here and there and it can still bring you a lot of joy.
Main Street
We're enjoying our conversation with Jill Winger, who has helped thousands of families live the old fashioned on purpose lifestyle. And her second book, Old Fashioned on Purpose, published by HarperCollins, has just been released. Jill who have been your mentors in this in this journey?
Jill Winger
Hmm. Great question. I think most of my my homestead mentors have come in the form of books. I don't have a lot of those minded type of minded people around me in my super local area. I mean, we have some wonderful ranchers and farmers, but they're more kind of a different mindset. So definitely books. Wendell Berry is my all time favorite writer and he is so brilliant in expressing many of the ideas that I now hold dear. Michael Pollan. He shifted my mindset on food many years ago, and I still read his works and absolutely love them. Joel Salatin is kind of considered the evangelist of the pastured poultry and grass fed beef movement, and I absolutely respect him. So like, I like those sorts of books and I lean on them heavily to keep me going, especially through the tough times.
Main Street
You said this to me a couple of years ago and it has stuck with me. I'll never forget it. You talk about being around big dreamers and big thinkers, but you are careful what you put into your own brain. What do you mean by that?
Jill Winger
You know, we have a limited amount of time to consume content regardless of who you are, whether you're a homesteader or not. So I'm careful to listen to those who are going to continue to push me towards greatness or encourage me to think bigger and get out of my comfort zone. And so, you know, I'm when I'm reading books or I'm listening to podcasts or things, I'm always leaning towards those type of mindsets and those type of thinkers versus kind of the more fluffy stuff that is easy to consume or it's more entertainment based, but it doesn't really do much for me in terms of motivation or inspiration.
Main Street
You told me once, too, that publishing a book was scary. Was this round two as scary as the first?
Jill Winger
I think it was scarier, actually. Yeah, because the cookbook is. I mean, there's still the question with a cookbook like, well, they like the recipes. Will it be useful? But this book is more of a thought provoking book. It is a lot more of me in this book. There's a lot more of my personal heart being poured out. And so there's that even that big question like, is this useful or are people going to like it or are they going to hate it? Will they get any value from it? So I think I've had more of that that trepidation publishing this one than the first one.
Main Street
You have published two books, what else would you tell me is part of your business?
Jill Winger
So the online platforms are really big piece. So we're always I'm always trying to solve problems. I'm always listening to what's the problem of people in my space, in the homesteading world. And then I try to meet those needs in terms of courses or blog posts or podcast episodes. We've also expanded into more tangible businesses the last couple of years. We're selling beef now to the public. We purchased a restaurant a couple of years ago, so that's been an interesting transformation as I've gone from strictly the digital world into brick and mortar and things. So yeah, we have a lot of little spokes off of our hub at this point.
Main Street
So I'm guessing you somewhat limit yourself on social media as far as a consumer, yet you produce on social media. What feedback do you get and do you have any push-back for, hey, you're marketing in this world of high tech and stuff, yet you kind of also say you need to really be careful about it as well.
Jill Winger
Absolutely. I get. Yeah. Every once in a while I'll have someone come along. It's like they think they caught me, you know, like, aha. You do have a phone. I see you posting on Instagram and I'm like, Yes, you know, it's not a secret. I'm very upfront with the fact that I acknowledge the contradiction that I am milking a cow while talking on an iPhone. I totally I think it's hilarious. And it's also like, I'm okay with that. I don't see it as a contradiction. Some people do. What's that? Is it Walt Whitman? The quote, I contain multitudes, right? I'm okay with a contradiction. I'm okay with both. I can live in both worlds. I think both are useful. I do love the world of online business and I do love marketing just as much as I love canning tomatoes and making sourdough bread. My brain thrives in both of those places. And so I also think it's important, you know, if I were doing all these old fashioned things and then never able to share them with the world, like there's been a lot of people who've taken on this lifestyle and found a lot of joy from consuming my content. So I'm happy to be one of those who's helping others find it and become successful in it. And I really couldn't do that without the Internet. So it's a love hate relationship I suppose .
Main Street
You and your husband, Christian, have a young family. Who is the audience for what you produce? Jill, Have you found that it's people in your boat that are young, might have no kids in their family yet, or maybe a couple of children? Or is it older folks who, like you said earlier, may have more time now to kind of say, how do we want to live out the rest of our time?
Jill Winger
I definitely have a good swath of the retired age group who are just looking to recapture the nostalgia from their own childhoods. But I would say my primary audience would be the people who are technically like 5 to 10 years behind where I am, and I can speak most effectively to them, I believe, because I know what they're thinking. I know what they're going through because they're who I was 5 to 10 years ago. So it's usually younger couples, younger families just starting out. And those are the people that I really enjoy serving.
Main Street
This is, on the face of it, a rural lifestyle. Can people who live in more urban areas take advantage of what it is that you want to talk about?
Jill Winger
Absolutely. And I'm really passionate about helping everyone to see how this can be applied to different situations. That's why I love the term old fashioned on purpose that I came up with, and that's why I named my book that instead of homesteading one on one or whatever, because homesteading carries a lot of connotations with it that would make it seem it has to be done on 100 acres and you have to have a certain number of farm animals. I see this movement as being more of a sense of awareness and living life through intention, and that can be done anywhere. An apartment in New York, a suburban neighborhood, a townhouse, and that's what I'm really calling people to to reconsider.
Main Street
All right. So we have the lifestyle. We have two books. We have a social media presence. Jill, We've got a restaurant now. What's next?
Jill Winger
Oh, man. You know, people have been asking me that a lot lately, and I am usually the first person to be able to tell you exactly what's next. And I think for one of the first times in my life, I don't know. I think we've had so many big things happen in our life and so many big projects the last couple of years. I'm feeling the pull to just sit for a few months throughout the winter. I love the darkness and the stillness of the winter months in Wyoming, and I just want to reevaluate and just be a normal human for a little while and ruminate on what I feel pulled towards next.
Main Street
You also gave me some advice that might be hard for some parents to hear you tell people: Don't listen to what your parents tell you that you should do. Do what lights you up. Tell me a little more about your evolution with that.
Jill Winger
Yes. Yeah. That is a hard that's a hard conversation sometimes. You know, my parents and I are different. I love them to death. But we move through life in a very different way. And I've only been able to get to where I wanted to be in my life by being willing to blaze my own trail and think outside of the box of how I was raised. And I think it's a really hard concept for a lot of people. We want to be respectful of our parents. We want to honor them, and I think we can still do that. But we also have to be willing to go places that maybe they wouldn't have gone and do things that make them uncomfortable. I know there's a lot of things that Christian and I do that that do make our families uncomfortable or like, Oh, that's scarier. We're not sure if that's that's good because we would have never done that. And we have to go. You know what? We know you're uncomfortable with it, but we feel called to it and we have to honor our calling and what our intuition is telling us. So I think that moment for us was so pivotal when we were able to finally break apart from those family ties, you know, not in a divisive way or a negative way, but just go, you know what, We know what we're supposed to do. We have to chase it no matter what. That's that's really important.
Main Street
Your online presence, Jill, where can people find you and then in turn find more information about you?
Jill Winger
So my original blog, The Prairie Homestead, is still going, and that's kind of the hub where you can learn all the different pieces of what I'm doing, the podcast in the book and all of that. And then if people are active on social media, I'm most present on Instagram. If they want to connect with me there. And my handle is Jill Dot Winger.
Main Street
For more than a decade, Jill Winger has helped thousands of families live the old fashioned on purpose lifestyle, and she has now published her second book, Old Fashioned on Purpose, published by HarperCollins. And that's just been released. Jill, we are thrilled that you had the time to join us on Main Street.
Jill Winger
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
—
Joan Baez (transcript)
Ashley Thornberg: 50 years and still going, the name Joan Baez will forever be linked to music and social justice.
Joan Baez: I think I probably started singing when I was 13. I mean, thinking maybe I really enjoyed doing that and started playing the ukulele and... Then started singing with a guitar when I was about 15, and then when I was 16, I already was doing civil disobedience in my own school. So it kind of came pretty much all together for me by the time I was in my mid-teens.
Ashley Thornberg: At just 18 years old in 1959, Baez took to the stage during the Newport Folk Festival.
Joan Baez: I was born gifted. And I can say that because I didn't do it. You know, it was given to me. And the second gift is that I got, I chose to do it at the, you know, I made the choices I did. Because I liked it. I mean, I liked doing what my voice, what I've done with it.
(music clip) Someone to open each and every door, but it ain't me, babe. No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for.
Ashley Thornberg: The folk singer is as known for interpreting the work of other musicians as she is for being a songwriter.
Joan Baez: I didn't even occur to me to be a songwriter for the first 10 years, because I came to music by way of, um, old folk ballads. And then other people started writing in Greenwich Village, in New York, New York City, and, um, And I did their music. And then one day somebody said, Well, why don't you write something? I never thought of it.
Ashley Thornberg: Dozens of albums later and she's back where she started. She performed again for the 50th anniversary of the Newport Folk Festival on August 2nd, in front of Pete Seeger.
Joan Baez: Pete is a riot. I think one of the high points of this last appearance with him was that my band and I do a version of a hymn called Angel Band, and we just stand around a microphone and we sing this four-part harmony.
We just sing it full throttle. And they said, I wish I'd seen it, but they said Pete was climbing the rafters on the side of the stage to hear it. At 90 years old. Yes, it was the big talk of the town and I was so flattered. I mean, what a moment.
(music clip) Oh come, angel band, come ye stand.
Ashley Thornberg: Another great love for Joan Baez, social justice. She's marched alongside Martin Luther King and even inspired Václav Havel during the Velvet Revolution in what was then Czechoslovakia. She and her mentor Ira Sandperl also co-founded the Institute for the Study of Nonviolence.
Joan Baez: We actually had some of Martin Luther King's people come and learn from us about nonviolence and we learned from them about their movements.
Ashley Thornberg: These days she's shifting gears, if only a little.
Joan Baez: For me, recent years have been very, it's been very important for me to slow down and get to know my family. That I'm not pretending right now to be dashing around the world saving anybody's souls, maybe set my own. I didn't know my family well enough during the ‘70s and early ‘80s. I really was still doing, doing, doing. And although I'm really pretty much proud of the things that I did all those years, the 60s as well, um, I missed out on my family. And instead of spending a lot of time regretting that, I'm spending a lot of time with my family. Yeah, I mean, I just feel very, very lucky.
I work hard and I practice hard. And I sing a wonderful concert, and then I don't want to go and, and do something brilliant for my mind, I want to go and watch an episode of Lost, you know, which is, just has nothing to do with anything except, um, relaxing my brain.
Ashley Thornberg: Preparing it for whatever the future holds.
Joan Baez: I, I really don't know. I mean, there have been times in the last 15 years when I thought, whoops, that's it. You know, I'm tired of this. And then I think, nah, the voice is still there. I think I'll do that for a while.
(music clip)
Suggested listening: Baez’ interview with Weekend Edition’s Scott Simon