In this engaging episode, we delve into the rich history and cultural significance of the East African Spice Trade, a pivotal era where merchants exchanged teas and spices across the vast expanse of the Indian Ocean. Our focus is on Chai Moto, a company that not only celebrates this heritage but also brings it to life through its premium tea blends. By incorporating traditional spices like lemongrass and cinnamon, Chai Moto pays homage to the artisans' dedication and the diverse tapestry of flavors that have come to define the region.
We are joined by Pasteur Mudende, the visionary owner of Chai Moto, who shares his insights into the art of tea and coffee making. Through his narrative, we explore how Chai Moto crafts its teas to honor the passion and diversity of the spice trade's artisans, ensuring that each cup tells a story of tradition, craftsmanship, and cultural pride.
Dave Thompson provides a comprehensive review of the latest news, offering listeners a blend of analysis and commentary on current events. Meanwhile, Matt Olien takes us through a review of the movie ‘Perfect Days,’ sharing his thoughts on its narrative, performances, and how it stands out in today's cinematic landscape.
The theme of this year's Black History Month is Africans and the Arts. Pasteur Mudende's coffee shop, Chai Moto, is full of art he's collected from several African countries. Yesterday, we got a tour of his art collection and today we learn about the art of making coffee and tea.
Interview Highlights: (Full Transcript below)
Here are three highlights from the interview:
- Inspiration from Nairobi Java House: Mudende reminisces about growing up in Nairobi and being inspired by the coffee shop culture, particularly Nairobi Java House, which sparked his desire to explore the world of coffee and eventually led to the opening of his own coffee shop.
- Artistic Influence in Design: As a visual artist, the interviewee emphasizes how art played a role in designing the ambiance of the coffee shop, creating a space that feels both spacious and intimate. The cafe is adorned with art pieces collected during travels to various African countries, reflecting a blend of cultural influences.
- Simplified Tea Experience: The interviewee shares insights into simplifying the tea-drinking experience, aiming to make it more accessible and enjoyable for customers. By offering personalized blends and emphasizing intuition over strict brewing guidelines, he seeks to demystify tea and create a welcoming environment for tea enthusiasts and newcomers alike.
Full Transcript:
Pasteur Mudende
All I can remember is when I was younger, I grew up in Nairobi. They have a nice coffee shop slash cafe called Nairobi Java House. And every time I went there on a weekend, it gave me a feeling that I wanted to to explore more.
They made me want to basically be part of the coffee world. We didn't drink much coffee, so we drank teas, but the aromas from coffee and the environment, it kind of really stuck to me. I got very attached to the cafe in Nairobi Java House, but eventually, basically, the idea kind of kept on growing and growing.
And I couldn't tell you the day that I decided I was going to open a coffee shop, but I just knew I wanted to be part of it.
Ashley Thornberg
Yeah, because you're actually an artist.
Pasteur Mudende
Yes, yes. I'm a visual artist. I do believe that art came and played a role in how I basically designed this space.
Ashley Thornberg
What do you mean by that? And I'll tell you my experience walking in as a consumer. I am floored by how it feels spacious and intimate at the same time. How did you do that?
Pasteur Mudende
I have no idea how anything happened. Just like anything is that you start with one piece and then you get another one and another, and eventually everything fits together so well, so perfectly. But all the art pieces that I have here, it's basically a collection of my art pieces.
Most of the stuff that's on the wall, I collected when I was traveling back home to Africa, Rwanda, Malawi, Ethiopia. Yeah, so I collected all these pieces knowing that I was going to put them in a coffee shop someday.
…
Ashley Thornberg
Can you walk us through the main differences between some of the most common tea traditions? Like, how would a Japanese tea preparation be different from how they would maybe make it?
Pasteur Mudende
It's more of a communal thing, so it's something that they share with a group of people. If you look at the Japanese tea ceremonies, they sit together and there's one person making tea, steeping it, adding hot water, and serving everyone around them.
Ashley Thornberg
They have to bow to go in the door, so everybody's humble.
Pasteur Mudende
Yes, so everybody's humble. So it's more of a ceremony. My business also offers tea because we serve matcha tea because it has become very popular.
And there's a lot of demand for it. However, when I got into tea, I noticed that there was a lot of mystery surrounding tea. There was a lot of complications surrounding tea.
So I felt that the general population, especially in America, they were a little bit intimidated into going to tea.
Ashley Thornberg
Because it's just a Lipton tea bag in boiling water.
Pasteur Mudende
Boiling water. But if you wanted to get loose leaf tea, and then you get all these special instructions, 86 degrees, one teaspoon.
Ashley Thornberg
Yeah. I didn't like green tea until it was made for me in a tea house…I was always oversteeping the big daylights out of that poor leaf.
Pasteur Mudende
Yeah. So there's a little thing about tea. You will like it more if you share it with a group of people.
Yes, it tastes different than when you make it for yourself and just drink it. So if you ever had a tea that you thought, I don't like the flavor. But if you had it in a communal way, it changes on how you perceive the flavors of the tea and then it grows on you.
And all of a sudden, you become an Oolong tea person. However, in my own way of serving tea, I wanted to make it simpler. I felt like tea was complicated. I felt like people thought tea was complicated. Obviously, there's a little bit of complications.
There's a few things that you can, few brewing guides that you can follow. However, I always encourage people to brew it in their own way, in their own home, and explore. And eventually, you'll find the right way to brew tea for yourself.
I grew up drinking tea. It was delicious. It was amazing.
And my mother never had a timer or a thermometer to measure the temperature of water.
Ashley Thornberg
Some people cook by intuition.
Pasteur Mudende
Yes, it was by intuition. And then you can learn that too. It's not that difficult. And so in a way, here, I created this space basically to almost liberate tea a little bit. Yeah, let people enjoy it the way you want. So I feel as though tea was put in a certain box…Also, obviously, we serve delicious coffee here as well.
Ashley Thornberg
I love this logo, by the way. Can you tell me a little bit about the logo? Did you come up with that?
Pasteur Mudende
I worked with an artist, basically. We kept on going back and forth on the design. So it's an image of a female, of a lady.
There's a lot of geometrical shapes and designs that kind of represented the geometrical shapes and design you see in modern art, as well as the headgear that she's wearing. It was inspired basically by a Muslim head.
Ashley Thornberg
Is that your faith background?
Pasteur Mudende
No, it's not my faith background. It's because we're from East Africa. Both faiths do mingle very freely.
Our Muslim neighbors celebrated Christmas with us. We celebrated Ramadan with them. We grew up just knowing that somebody's faith wasn't something to be afraid of or to run away from.
Ashley Thornberg
The feeling that I get from looking at this, this is a woman who exudes power and would never use it to harm.
Pasteur Mudende
Oh, absolutely. I'm glad you say that.
Ashley Thornberg
There's a softness in the eyes that she would only use it to bring more beauty into the world or something.
Pasteur Mudende
Absolutely.
Ashley Thornberg
Let's have a tea. You've prepared a rooibos tea for me and a coffee for you. So rooibos, is this, this is an herb, right?
This would be caffeine free?
Pasteur Mudende
Yes, it would be caffeine free. So rooibos is a herb. It's originating from South Africa.
It's one of the best substitutes for black tea. It has almost similar flavor profiles, but it's more, it has more earthy tones and caramel tones.
Ashley Thornberg
It smells so good.
Pasteur Mudende
Yes. So the ones you're, the one you're drinking right now, it's a blend. It's a rooibos chai blend.
Ashley Thornberg
Did you come up with the blend or do you order blends?
…
Pasteur Mudende
I make all the blends. Yes. Because the world of tea is as expansive as you can imagine.
You, yes, you can, you can basically think of a flavor and figure out a way to achieve it and you will make it.
Ashley Thornberg
So walk me through your design process in coming up with your blend.
Pasteur Mudende
The flavors, the spices that we added in this tea, they are not the spices that I came up with. It's a very popular drink, chai masala.
Pasteur Mudende
It's a tea that the spices, basically it's a spice, it's a tea blend that originated from India. Okay. And they combine ginger, cloves, and cardamom.
Ashley Thornberg
It's very warming.
Pasteur Mudende
It's very warming and some cinnamon. And those are the main popular spices that we add into, into tea to create a masala tea.
Pasteur Mudende
So I have added some pink peppercorns here and sometimes I'll add some white peppercorns. Okay. And then, so there's pink peppercorns, there's some white peppercorns, which are more spicier or kick.
So I add those into the tea as well. So you can play around with flavors. You can add vanilla to add the warmth.
Ashley Thornberg
Okay. Yeah. It does, it does taste a little like a mulled apple cider. I'm surprised by that because there's no apple.
Pasteur Mudende
There's no apple. So the one, yeah. And then this one, it's, it's tasting almost like a cider because I added a lime in your tea.
Ashley Thornberg
So what does the citrus do in this?
Pasteur Mudende
First of all, adding citrus into tea, there's a lot of people who love it and real tea connoisseurs will, will advise against adding any type of citrusy or lemon into your tea because it would change the flavor. Basically, it will break down the flavor and then you will get something else. So you get a whole new flavor…
Yeah, it tastes a little like home. Yeah. So I've added lime, a lemon or orange with the teas, some, some different types of teas, depending on the, on the blend of tea and, and the person to the personality and how long you're going to let it sit.
So for instance, if you are to get a green tea, I'll have some jasmine pearl tea and some black teas. If you let it steep a little bit longer, you start getting the tannins and then tea can get a little bit bitter. And the citrus flavor basically will help, will overshadow the bitterness of the tea.
So sometimes if somebody is sitting longer and they're waiting for the tea, sometimes they don't drink it as quick as they should. I just offer it.
Ashley Thornberg
What's the hardest tea to prepare?
Pasteur Mudende
I'm a procrastinator, which is a bad.
Ashley Thornberg
As an artist, I'm shocked.
Pasteur Mudende
So I do everything last minute. And when I started making teas, at the time I was selling iced teas at the farmers market, I would basically blend the teas the night before. Oh, wow.
And I had a whole week to prepare. So very quickly, I've learned just by looking at what's in the blend, just by looking at it, I know that, okay, this might need a little bit more cinnamon. Or you might need, just by the way I look at it.
So I don't even have written recipes for blending teas, which is one of my to-do lists so that my staff will help me blend the teas…I also joked around that most of the time, my tea might taste slightly a little bit different. Yeah, because I blend it almost every few days.
I blend a new batch. And that week I might be into more ginger. And then the next week I might be less into it.
But we don't know. I try to keep it as consistent as I could.
Ashley Thornberg
Do you make seasonal teas?
Pasteur Mudende
Absolutely. There's teas that really work well in colder season and teas that work well in hot season that you can drink over ice. But I have one of my favorite teas that I drink hot or iced is the hibiscus tea.
Our hibiscus tea blend is really, really delicious when it's over ice. And it's really more delicious when hot. So it's my favorite blend.
The other blend that I really think, I felt like I stumbled upon it by just playing around with flavor is chamomile tea, the chamomile blend that I have. So I use Egyptian chamomile flowers. I add a little bit of lemongrass and some cinnamon.
And so it's basically not your typical chamomile. If I had even a local, not a quality chamomile, I'd love to use it. But yeah, but chamomile has a very soothing warmth.
Ashley Thornberg
Where do you source your ingredients?
Pasteur Mudende
I just source them all over. So any particular tea blend has at least four different herbs or spices. So they all come from all around the world.
You have oolong tea from China. I have some milk oolong. I believe it's from Taiwan.
I have some cinnamon from India. There's a tea blend that I use a lot of vanilla beans in it. And so yes, everything comes from all over the world.
Ashley Thornberg
Wherever the plant is.
Pasteur Mudende
But also there are things that you can always find here really in America, like cinnamon. You can buy cinnamon sticks everywhere and crush them and then add them into your tea.
Ashley Thornberg
How's it going owning a business? It's the opposite side of the brain is all the artistic stuff you do.
Pasteur Mudende
You have no idea what you're doing half of the time. I feel like I'm behind, like 10 months behind every day.
Ashley Thornberg
And you've been open for two months?
Pasteur Mudende
Yeah, I've been open for two months. Great. It's anxiety inducing.
But at the same time, it's very, very exciting. Every day you go home feeling proud, feeling like you had a win. So it's really good.
And then every day you go to bed looking forward to the next day.
Ashley Thornberg
So I'll cheers to that. Do you ever cheers with tea?
Pasteur Mudende
Yes, you can cheers with tea.
Ashley Thornberg
Why is it called Chai Moto?
Pasteur Mudende
So coming up with a business name, I do feel like actually, that's one of the hardest thing to do. Unless you wanted to name it after yourself. It took me quite some time.
I think I had so many names on paper. For as long as I've known, as long as I've known I wanted to own a coffee shop, I've always had names. However, on the day I wanted to register the business, somehow somewhere, I don't know if it's my brain, I was thinking in Swahili, the words Chai Moto came into my head.
It's like a bell went off. And basically, Chai means tea in most parts of the world. In Kinyarwanda is Ichai.
In Swahili is also Chai. And Moto is Swahili for fire or hot. So basically, it will loosely translate to hot tea or fire tea. This tea is fire.My main goal for having this space, for designing this space is I wanted to have a place where people from the community can come and visit with each other and hang out and talk and have a connection. I wanted people to stay off their screens. I wanted people to have human connection.
Ashley Thornberg
That's true. I don't see anyone on the phone here.
Pasteur Mudende
You always find people here, basically having conversations. And they tend to have long conversations. So people spend here an average of an hour.
And there's no food. It's just tea and coffee and just great conversation. I believe the environment is in a way soothing enough to want to connect and learn from each other.
I've met so many amazing people walking in here. Very smart individuals. People who are so excited to come here for tea.
Fellow tea enthusiasts who live in this area that did not know they existed. A lot of people don't like to admit that they like sugar. But they want sugar in their teas.
However, I always find there's always a couple people who come in and they say, I want, I just want this tea. I just want it like that. Please don't add any sugar.
Don't ruin it for me. Yes. And it's really amazing because they like the tea blends.
Ashley Thornberg
Yeah. Yeah. There's no sugar in this and it's delicious.
I feel taken care of in drinking this tea.
Pasteur Mudende
Oh, yes. Wonderful. A lot of customers come in here and they don't look at the menu.
To just say whatever he made me last time. And then they are like, what did he make you last time? And then they have to come find me.
And then I just have to go through a series of interrogation. What did I make you? What did you? How did it taste? Okay, now I remember. Because sometimes I don't remember what I made you last time.
Ashley Thornberg
Is that how your art process works at all? Do you kind of go into a state like when you're painting?
Pasteur Mudende
Yes. When you paint, you kind of have an end picture in mind, but it's not clear. And you don't know it until you get there.
Until you get to a point you're like, okay, now this painting, this reveals itself to you. You think you have it in your head, but you didn't. Right?
So it just works itself out. It's almost as though it's talking to you. It's telling you, hey, I want this.
I want this color here. You never know what color works. You can try to think about it and focus and be stubborn.
But if you just let your intuition guide you and something basically comes up by itself. And so has the way I've been making some of the, half the tablets that I recommend just add hot water and drink. But like the one I made you, basically I added that lime for, but everybody I've ever made this drink, so I don't like making it because they never order anything else.
NOTE - This transcript was generated using AI tools. The official record is the audio of the broadcast.