MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
Tens of thousands of people gathered yesterday in Arizona to remember conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Among them, Kirk's widow, Erika Kirk. She has now taken the reins at the organization he helped found - Turning Point USA. Last night, she spoke of her husband's mission and of forgiveness for the man who killed him.
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ERIKA KIRK: I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do.
KELLY: One of the people committed to continuing Kirk's legacy is the conservative podcaster Michael Knowles. He was scheduled to join Kirk tonight at a Turning Point USA event at the University of Minnesota. Instead, he is now headlining the event alone. Michael Knowles, welcome, and I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
MICHAEL KNOWLES: Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And it's good to be with you.
KELLY: I know you were there at this big memorial service in Arizona yesterday. What will you take from that? What was your impression?
KNOWLES: It was striking in so many ways. Charlie's widow, Erika, gave one of the most powerful speeches I've ever heard, as we just heard a clip of. It was a magnificent expression of Christian charity and forgiveness. And to see all of these hardened politicians show up and proclaim a beautiful gospel message was something that in previous ages would not have been unusual in our country, but these days is rare. And so it was just remarkable and uplifting in so many ways.
KELLY: May I ask, do you share that spirit of forgiveness that Erika Kirk so eloquently expressed?
KNOWLES: I do. I think she exhibited it in really a superhuman way. But with whatever I can muster, I certainly agree with it. And of course, this does not come to the exclusion of justice. You know, the civil authority has the right and the responsibility to carry out justice. But we should not hate our enemies.
KELLY: So I do need to note that President Trump also spoke last night. He took a rather different approach and a different tone. He said - and he was speaking of Charlie Kirk - he said...
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent. And I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry.
KELLY: Michael Knowles, is that helpful in this moment?
KNOWLES: I think it is because it was a joke. And it was understood to be a joke in the room. He even...
KELLY: He didn't sound like he was joking.
KNOWLES: I think he did. I think - he said afterward, he said, Charlie's looking down at me. He's angry at me for saying that. Maybe Erika can talk to me. I think it was an expression of humility, of a fall in human nature, and, by contrast, pointing to the alternative and saying, you know, what Erika and Charlie were talking about - that's the right thing. Maybe someday I'll get there.
KELLY: So let me turn you to tonight. I mentioned you will be headlining this event. I saw your post on social media that you plan for this to be a tribute. And you said, the enemies of civilization will not succeed at killing his mission. They will not even succeed at killing his tour. What will be your message tonight, and have you changed it at all because of what's happened?
KNOWLES: Well, I'm certainly reacting to Erika's beautiful speech and really what was a beautiful event yesterday. But the substance of it remains the same. You know, Charlie went out into hostile places where people really hated him, and he had a civil dialogue with them. He was always generous. He was always respectful. He would argue with his friends and he would be generous and respectful. And we're going to do that, and we're going to encourage people who disagree to come to the front of the line.
KELLY: Stay with us for a minute and the idea that people, especially those who disagreed, are welcome at these events and welcome in conversation because Charlie Kirk, your friend, has been portrayed as an advocate of free speech, of engaging with people who held really different political views than he did. What do you think he would have made of some of the developments of recent days? I'm thinking of Attorney General Pam Bondi's attack on hate speech or of the chair of the FCC, Brendan Carr, threatening TV stations with fines or with losing their license if they continue to carry Jimmy Kimmel's show.
KNOWLES: Well, I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for Charlie. You know, Charlie ran his course. And I find it unseemly to try to speak for the dead. We do know he publicly opposed the idea of hate speech. And so I think that was an unfortunate phrase. Now, of course, there are plenty of kinds of speech. There are...
KELLY: But he said even that is protected by the First Amendment.
KNOWLES: Well, something called hate speech, but that's not - as Charlie observed, that's not even a legal concept in America. Certain hateful ideas can be debated, but certain things are unlawful, like direct threats, incitement to violence and all the rest. So that certainly should be prosecuted in order to defend the free marketplace of ideas. But distasteful ideas can be debated, certainly.
As for the FCC, I won't presume to speak for Charlie on the issue other than to observe the FCC exists for a reason, is to regulate the public airwaves and to give licenses and to revoke licenses from corporations that use them. So there's nothing wrong in principle, and it's actually the responsibility of the government in principle, to regulate those airwaves. And in terms of the specific incident of Jimmy Kimmel, it seems to me that came much more from the affiliates canceling him over his repugnant lie about the assassination of Charlie rather than any government pressure.
KELLY: Well, and I can play what he actually said.
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JIMMY KIMMEL: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
KELLY: That's what he actually said.
KNOWLES: And that was a lie. That was a lie because the alleged shooter was on the left. I'm not surprised that the affiliates wanted to cancel his show.
KELLY: I guess I'm interested. You know, we've just been talking about President Trump's remarks last night, which you interpreted as a joke. Some other people may hear that and disagree strongly. But you're defending the use of humor, even in a situation like last night. Do you also defend the right of someone to use humor on television even if you really don't like what they said?
KNOWLES: I'm certainly fine defending Jimmy Kimmel's bad jokes. But what I take issue with is not his joke that came at the end of that monologue. What I take issue with is his lie that said that the assassin who murdered Charlie Kirk was on the right rather than on the left, in - contrary to all of the available evidence.
KELLY: Just want to note, I don't think he said he was on the right. Can I turn us to something else? Tonight, do you have concerns about security?
KNOWLES: It's always prudent to be a little bit concerned, especially with all of this violence. I myself have been targeted by left-wing violence. So we're concerned, but we're taking it seriously. And more importantly, I think it would greatly dishonor Charlie's legacy if we cowered, if we let them silence us. So that will not happen. And if Charlie's friends can muster even an iota of the courage that he demonstrated, I think that will do him some honor, and I think it would be very salutary for the country.
KELLY: Michael Knowles. He hosts "The Michael Knowles Show," and tonight, as you heard, he's headlining Charlie Kirk's American Comeback Tour with an event at the University of Minnesota. Thank you.
KNOWLES: Wonderful to be with you. Thank you for having me.
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