What does it mean to be from somewhere? And how do restaurants, events, and even diversity of languages spoken create a sense of community? Alicia Underlee Nelson is a travel writer who's written for Thomson Reuters, The Food Network, Delta Sky Magazine, among others. Her latest book is called 100 Things to Do in Fargo Before You Die.
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Interview Transcript
Ashley Thornberg
Alicia, I'll start with the obvious, 100 things to do. A common criticism of this area is there's not a lot to do. And your response is, here's 100 things. How often do you hear there's nothing to do here?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
I hear there's nothing to do here constantly. And we're especially bad about it here in the Midwest, but it happens everywhere. I just got back from Columbus, Ohio.
People told me the same thing. I've traveled extensively in Germany and Spain and about 40 plus states in the U.S. And we all say it because it's really, really common to go a little bit numb to the things that you see and interact with every day. And this happens.
We get in our habits. And my goal as a travel writer and as a traveler and I think as a person is just to encourage people to look around them, to use their senses, and to kind of appreciate both a new place when you're traveling, but even more importantly to appreciate our everyday lives every minute that we're living because it doesn't make sense to save the china and save the gift card and save that nice outfit to wear for a night out. Do it now.
… We're so guilty of waiting for a special occasion. We're very guilty of looking around at a fascinating place that we visit and think, this is amazing.
If only this could be, if only I could have something like this at home. And a lot of times we miss things that are right in front of us. And I have a story of this through my life.
I went to Paris with my husband before a friend's wedding a few years ago. And we sat and we watched ducks on this tiny little duck pond. And I thought, wouldn't it be great if we had a duck pond?
And I was so embarrassed to go back home and realize there was a duck pond five blocks away from my apartment at the time. And I thought, you know what? This is a sign I need to turn my attention more locally because I am missing things that I should see.
Ashley Thornberg
Yeah. Being a tourist in your own state, it's really kind of a mindset. What are some of the top things that when people hear you're from North Dakota, you always sort of have to say, here's what's great about it?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
Well, here's what I don't like is people say, oh, great. Is Mount Rushmore in North Dakota? No, it's not.
North and South Dakota are lumped together constantly. If people have lived here for any amount of time, they know how frustrating that is. We're lumped together in guidebooks.
We're lumped together in travel articles. And I think there's been a wonderful resurgence of people really wanting to go a little bit off the beaten path, which is a little frustrating for those of us that live off the beaten path. But there's been a real reclaiming of the term flyover country by a lot of us that live here in the Midwest because it doesn't really matter to me that that is intended as a derogatory term.
I think it's great because I think there's a lot of interesting and fun things that we can see all around us. And I think North Dakota has some incredible treasures. And when I tell people about, you know, Brew Hall, the really fantastic food hall that we have here in Fargo and how it holds up to places that I've visited all over the country, when I tell them that I can go hiking and exploring on the Matahe Trail and go through the Badlands and that we have an incredible state park or national park to visit and all these incredible state parks to visit, they realize that maybe they don't have any idea what our state has to offer at all. And people that live in North Dakota are guilty of this as well. It's really common as I'm out promoting this book, which is 100 Things to Do in Fargo Before You Die, that people will say, oh, I've done all of those things.
And they'll pick up the book and get five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten items in and go, oh, I haven't done any of this at all. And I think that, you know, we've got world-class museums. We have really, really interesting food in this state and a diversity that is growing and thriving and a diversity of language, of food, of culture.
I mean, I just went to Pangaea and got to experience food from all over the world, music from all over the world, traditions, traditional dance and dress, talking to people and shopping and really feeling like I learned something new, even though this is my job to know what's happening in our community. And that's great because I think that's what we travel for, right? We travel to have those outside of our normal experience moments.
... I always encourage people, do the things when friends come to visit for Thanksgiving or Christmas as we go into the holiday season. Go out and do those things with them. Don't just tell them to go to the museum that you have maybe never been to. Don't just tell them to go out. Maybe someone comes to visit you and they want to go out boating in the summer. Don't just tell them to go. Go yourself. Take time off and do it. It's so fun and it's so liberating. And once you start working your way down a list, any list, whether it's a list that you find in my book or one of my articles or a list that you create with yourself, you're going to find more options.
I do this with my parents as well. They kept asking me for different places to eat and they said, why don't we just write it down? They made a list in their phone and realized there was a ton of places that they hadn't tried. They were getting a little bored with the same old restaurants, realized that this was not the fault of culinary scene. It was their fault. And that happens to all of us. That list just keeps growing. You tick off a few, somebody else tells you about one that you haven't tried. You're driving past a place, you see a new place, you add it. The next thing you know, you're busy for the whole year. I think that's liberating.
Ashley Thornberg
Alicia, what do words like placemaking and community mean to you?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
I think community is ever evolving. I think there's this idea that a city or a state or a neighborhood is a static thing that you can take a snapshot of. And I don't think that's the case at all.
I think those are always evolving. And I think placemaking is absolutely vital. I am so interested both in my work here in North Dakota and my work in the Midwest and around the world in people that can create unique experiences in third places or third spaces.
So not at home, not at work, but in those places that we can gather as people together, ideally where we don't have to spend any money at all, where we can just go out and meet people who are different than us, meet people who live in a different part of town, maybe don't have a vehicle but take the bus, maybe from a different class or a different religion or a different group of some kind, and just be together and not have to confront any issues or solve any problems, but just, you know, eat a snack and walk around and hear some music. And I think placemaking is a skill that we've lost a little bit.
We have an ability to specialize our experiences and specialize our lives in such an intense way now. We can really determine the type of news that we want to hear. We can determine the things that we want to read.
We can limit where we live and where we drive and where we shop to support our values, which is great. But I think we lose a lot when we lose that connection with other people in our community who might be making different choices because so much of the time people say, oh, they're so different, I don't know what we would talk about. But I found that if you can get together and attend one of the many great events going on across the state or sit down at a meal with someone or even just, you know, rub elbows with somebody at the local library and talk about what you're reading, we have so much more in common than we realize.
And I think that communities really need those spaces where we can come together, where we can interact, and where we can surprise ourselves because so much, I think, of our dissatisfaction is we're a little stuck. You know, we're a little stuck. And when we customize and curate our lives in this very specific way, it can be a little stifling.
And as a creative person, I need that energy. I need to see what other people are creating. I need to see what they're doing and what they're eating and what they're cooking and how we're talking.
I need to watch. At Pangea, I watched a group of young women dance, and they just had this great energy. I watched people teach me about German fencing.
I don't know anything about German fencing, but that was interesting, you know. It gave me something to think about. It gave me something to talk about.
And I think we need that. I think it's vital not just for creative people like myself, but it's vital to keep us curious. You know, I dedicated this book to my grandma, Mary Ann Johnson, who is out and about.
And she has had some major health issues this past year. And she has done so many things in this book. And we go out.
We went to the Red River Market, and, you know, we got her all out. She has a really nice, very foldable, packable wheelchair. I said, what do you want to do now?
She goes, well, let's go look at this shop. We haven't done that. You know what we should do?
We should run over to Sweet Dreams Confections and grab some gelato. We were out for the entire day. And she has always said, if I can get out and do things and see things and shake things up, anybody can.
And I think that's really true. Like, it is a matter of perspective, that even if you have mobility challenges, even if you're financially challenged, I mean, that's something that many of us are going to have to deal with in our life. But we're lucky here in North Dakota that there are so many attractions that are free, that offer, you know, financial assistance.
There are places that are accessible. There are ways that the community opens itself up to all of us. All we need to do is take that first step and get a little curious and go out and explore.
Ashley Thornberg
Having been a travel writer long enough to straddle something like a pandemic, what are your impressions of what people really got solid and clear on about their values during something like pandemic as it relates to travel and experience?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
Well, the pandemic was an absolute game changer for my industry as it was for so many others, because obviously we were not traveling as travel writers during a pandemic. And it really made myself and my colleagues and my editors and every publication I write for go back and say, what is this that we do? I mean, I think before the pandemic, things had kind of shifted to a very listicle oriented focus.
The top 10 things to do in Paris. I never liked writing those kind of stories because it implied that you just blasted into a place, ticked off things and then hopped on the next flight. And that was never a way that I was interested in seeing a place.
I'm very much a slow traveler. I very much like to see things from the neighborhood level up. I focus a lot on recommendations from locals.
And I think that that's really what we all started doing during the pandemic, because suddenly we couldn't escape on the other side of the world. We couldn't just book that ticket. We had to look at places that were familiar to us.
And what I thought was fantastic is I've run a travel blog for several years. And there were people that would say, oh, I'd love to go hiking, but I don't hike. Boy, a quarter of a mile.
That's a really long way. And I would think you walk that from the target across the target parking lot to your car all the time. And we don't think of it.
And during the pandemic, people would message me and say, hey, I checked out that list of state parks on your site. Hey, I reread this article that you wrote that talked about getting out. And I realized I can hike.
There are really great parks here. I didn't realize that there was all these great green spaces. I didn't realize that I could get a state parks pass at my local library and visit all these state parks for free.
So I think we all got a little bit better about looking around and spotting things that were interesting to us and stretching our own limits a little bit. And I think it was very fascinating to me that we challenged ourselves, and many people got outside of their bubble by being forced to be inside a bubble in the first place. And I think people looked around, and they saw what they valued in their community.
They said, you know what? If I want this independent bookstore or this mom and pop shop or my favorite pizzeria to survive, I need to spend money there. And even if I can't eat in the restaurant right now, I can get a takeout order.
Even if I'm not comfortable shopping in person right now, you know what? I can order, and they'll ship me the books, or I can stop by and pick them up. There's so many different ways that we can interact with these spaces that we value.
And it's really common that people say, oh, I've always wanted to shop at that store, but I've never gone. Or I wanted to go to that restaurant, but it closed. You know, it was open for 10 or 15 years.
That's a long time in the retail and restaurant space. If we want these places to thrive, we need to go there. We need to order.
We need to support them. And I get it. Like, inflation is a bummer, and we're all stretched for money.
But there are things that we can do, and there are great specials that places run to encourage us to come in, because they want to be a part of the community. They want local people to be shopping and dining, and they want you to be a regular presence in the community. As much as we want them there, they want us in the doors.
But we have to take that first step. And it was really heartening for me during the pandemic to see people that had sort of resisted that realizing that, oh, hey, I don't have to necessarily buy everything on Amazon. I can go down the street.
All these little things that we can do that have made our lives interesting and rewarding and connected us maybe to nature, maybe to our family or our friends in a new way, maybe to our community. I think we can just keep building on that now as we move forward into a new era. I mean, nobody wanted the pandemic to happen, of course.
And it was so hard. But I think as we had to make hard choices and we had to really look at our own mental and physical health, we learned to make some choices about what we value.
Ashley Thornberg
Alicia, so much of travel writing is geared at individuals, at the people who are actually traveling. I wonder, do you tailor this message at all or is there a movement within the broader group of travel writers about how to talk to city planners, for example?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
Oh, that is something that I think is definitely evolving right now as we speak. When I write, I actually just spoke to my son's class. And I told them, when you write a travel writing piece, it's really about your senses.
It's about putting you there. It's about painting a picture of that moment. It's not just writing to inform a traveler, which is what you need.
If you are traveling to this place, you do need information about transportation and hotels and budget and that sort of thing. But I want this to be a transformative piece. Even if they never go to the places that I write about, I want them to get a slice of life and feel what this space is like.
And I think sometimes – and I've covered city council meetings in my work as a journalist. I think sometimes it's very easy. You focus a lot on zoning and taxes and very, very, very small issues.
And that's not a job that I would be good at. I think a job that travel writers are good at is sort of pulling back and taking that wide view of why we're building these communities in the first place. And I think travel writers are very good at coming in and getting the vibe of the place right.
Telling people what they can expect and sort of reminding city planners and reminding people that work in retail and work in events of the things that maybe they miss because we're so used to them. And showing them the value of some of these outside-the-box ideas. I think sometimes it's a challenge for people to see the possibilities of a place.
And I think travel writers can be very helpful in pointing out other situations where this has worked. They can be helpful in showing how people – in getting actual quotes from people that are interacting with a space or an event and kind of sharing that. And I think a lot of times the people that are specifically charged with city planning often get it.
You know, place making, it's not a new concept. Urban planners are really well-versed in this. But I remember attending many city planning meetings in multiple cities here in the metro and across North Dakota where it was sort of hard to get everyone in the community on board.
Because people really couldn't understand what do we need another park for? What do we need more funding for a public library for? What does it matter?
What does it matter that our sidewalks are inviting? Nobody cares. But they do.
And I think travel writers and travelers themselves and local people can do a great job of expressing how a place feels and smells and, you know, the things that we can experience in a place. And really kind of translating that that's the quality of life that we want to build. Not just for people that are visiting a city, but for those of us that live in a space.
And I think, you know, voting with your pocketbook is important. Voting for people that support the kind of city that you want to live in is important. But I think just being in an open dialogue with people that are able to make those decisions is vital as well.
Ashley Thornberg
How do you get published, for example, in Delta Sky magazine?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
Well, I am a freelancer, which means that I don't have one set boss or one editor. I work for a variety of publications and I'm pitching ideas all the time. And that's exactly what it sounds like.
Any entrepreneur is going to be familiar with that. I have ideas percolating constantly and I am always looking for the right fit for those ideas. So I have notebooks and notes on my phone and little scraps of paper filled with things that are interesting to me constantly.
And I have numerous writers and editors that I connect with that I write for on a regular basis. So that's a little easier. I also basically cold call or cold pitch a lot of people as well.
But honestly, the best advice that I've ever gotten for freelance writers and creative people in general, and this is advice that I share every time I give a book talk, is create the thing that you are uniquely qualified to create and the thing that you are passionate about and the right people will find you. So your question about how did I get in a seat back publication in Delta Sky magazine, that was a dream that I never even thought was possible for me. I think I was 11 or 12 before I flew in a plane. I just remember thinking, how does someone even get into this? This is amazing.
I'd be so famous if that ever happened. But the reason that it happened was that I was writing recommendations of places that I thought were interesting. And people noticed them and they shared them.
And that led to more work and bigger work. And people thought, hey, you know, Alicia, she does a lot of writing about this part of the world. She does a lot of writing about this slow travel stuff.
She does a lot of writing about local makers. And the name floats around. You get referred.
People can see the work that you've done in the past. Your portfolio speaks for itself. And you start getting calls, which I came out of an ad sales background.
And that seemed like madness to me. Like, really? People are just going to find me and my colleagues are going to refer me, which happens quite a lot, too.
Someone will say, do you know somebody that's passionate about this? And I'll say, oh, that's really not me. I don't write.
I don't do technical writing or I don't do this style of writing, educational writing. But I do have several colleagues that do. Let me pass on your name.
And that's really how it works in this particular field. So the best advice, write what you love, write what you know, put it out there, publish that wherever you possibly can. I did a lot of work for free.
I did a lot of work for 25 bucks starting out. But it all comes together. And people can sense that passion.
There are a lot of things that I can write, but I'm not the best person for them. And I think the further along I get in my career, the more comfortable I am doing what other colleagues have done for me, saying, yes, I can't do that. But this person is she's actually going to be a better bet for you.
And it's really fun to watch that sort of collaboration grow.
Ashley Thornberg
Where can people find you on the socials?
Alicia Underlee Nelson
I am at PrairieStyleFile.com, pretty much across the board.
Ashley Thornberg
Alicia Underlee Nelson, the author of 100 Things to Do in Fargo Before You Die. Book signing coming up on the 1st at NDSU, on the 2nd at Sweet Dreams Confection, and on the 9th during Fargo's Vintage Crawl, and December 16th in Bismarck at Barnes & Noble.
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