Soraya Nevin, a master’s student at NDSU, is on an exciting journey to qualify for the U.S. Olympic team in shooting sports. Joining us to discuss her aspirations and training is Eric Pueppke, the esteemed USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach.
In the second segment of our program, we delve into the thought-provoking world of human-robot relations with Dr. Jack Russell Weinstein. As the Chester Fritz Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at the University of North Dakota, Dr. Weinstein will offer his expert insights, exploring the complex and evolving dynamic between humans and artificial intelligence in this month's Philosophical Currents.
Highlights of Interview with Sorya Nevin and Eric Pueppke
- Soraya Nevin's Unique Journey: Soraya shares her late start in shooting sports during high school and her unexpected path to qualifying for the Junior Olympics. Her story is inspiring for anyone pursuing their passion despite a late start.
- Eric Pueppke's Coaching Experience: Eric offers insights from his extensive coaching career, including transitioning from a competitor to a coach and his impact on the shooting sports community. His perspective is valuable for understanding the coach-athlete dynamic.
- Intersection of Academics and Athletics: Soraya discusses balancing her graduate studies in biomedical engineering with her shooting ambitions. This segment highlights the challenges and rewards of juggling high-level academic and athletic pursuits.
- Mental Aspects of Shooting: Both guests delve into the crucial mental component of shooting sports. Their discussion on mental preparation and resilience is enlightening for anyone interested in the psychological aspects of competitive sports.
- Technological Advances in Training: The conversation touches on innovative technologies like the SCAT machine and custom equipment, illustrating the evolving nature of training in shooting sports. It's fascinating for those interested in sports technology.
- Future Goals and Aspirations: Soraya talks about her aspirations to join the national team and compete in the Olympics, providing a glimpse into the dedication and commitment required at the highest levels of sport.
This interview is a must-listen for its unique blend of personal journey, insights into competitive sports, the intersection of technology and training, and the sheer determination and resilience of a young athlete.
Transcript of Interview with Sorya Nevin and Eric Pueppke
Main Street
Soraya, welcome to Main Street. Hi. It's really good to see you again.
Eric, it's great to see you and it's good to meet you. Nice to meet you. Welcome to Main Street.
Soraya, you and I met on an airplane when we were de-planning in Denver and you told me you were on your way to some pre-Olympic competition in shooting. We talked a little more about it and here we are today. You grew up in Michigan.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I did. I grew up in Holt, Michigan, which is just by Michigan State University.
Main Street
So you became interested in shooting. Shooting you told me at a rather late age compared to many of the people you are now competing against.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yes, I started in high school as a junior and most other people started at a much younger age in 4-H from just like childhood. But I started as a junior at the local range.
Main Street
And what prompted you to want to start shooting?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I had goals at the time to join the military and I felt like it would be a good idea to know if I could shoot or not. And so I was like, I'll take a pistol class at the local range. I actually wanted to take a rifle class.
Well, when's the pistol class? And it's Sunday night. So I was like, I'll just try that.
And it was air pistol class that met weekly and I was like, I'll try it. And I tried it and I thought it was a lot of fun. So I would shoot every week and then a couple months in they had their first match at the range.
It turns out that that was the Olympic qualifying, or the junior Olympic qualifying match. I found out that I had qualified and then a few months later went out to Colorado Springs to the Olympic Training Center and competed for the first time at the JOs.
Main Street
You are currently a graduate student in biomedical engineering here at NDSU. I think the reason you came here is fascinating because you are a great student. You're going to pursue a PhD in genetics, I think you told me.
Yes. Yet you came here to shoot.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Why? Because while I was in high school and competing at the national level, I met Eric. It seemed like it'd be a really good fit here for shooting.
And I came out here after the second time I went to the junior Olympics, I flew back with Eric to check out NDSU and meet the team and it felt like home away from home.
Main Street
Eric, you shot here when you were in college. I did. I did.
Tell me about that history.
Well, every North Dakota farm boy grows up shooting. And when I went to NDSU, they actually had shooting programs for phy eds. And I...
Physical education. For physical education. The first one I took was rifle.
I was very good at it. They wanted me on the rifle team. And it just didn't excite me that much.
The next time around, I took pistol and I wasn't really good at that, but the challenge was there and the rest is history, I guess.
Main Street
Did you continue to compete then?
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
Yeah. So I continued to compete. I found a pistol club here in Fargo called Gateway Pistol Club.
And I started competing with them. And I competed for about 35, 36 years. You know, I had some days in the sun.
I had state records. They put me in the North Dakota Shooting Sport Hall of Fame, things like that, you know. And then at some point, I decided to start giving back.
About 2004 or 5, I kind of quit competing and started coaching and doing this coach training type stuff for USA Shooting and NRA. And that's about the time I got involved with USA Shooting.
Main Street
What does it mean to be a club sport in shooting in, I guess, the country? Are there many universities that have this? You work on a shoestring budget, I'm guessing?
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
It varies. On the pistol side, there is just club sports around the United States. I want to say there's probably 22, 23 schools around the United States that have pistol programs.
On the rifle side, there's many more. There's probably 70 or more. I know some schools, like Ohio State is an example.
They're going to shoot with us here shortly. They have kids that come on a six-figure scholarship, just like one would come for a football or basketball scholarship.
Main Street
Soraya, how have you done competitively at this level?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Competitively, I have done okay. I've made... Tell me what okay is.
So we have, it's called All-American. Other sports have it, too. It's for academic excellence and performance in your sport.
And so I was the first sport pistol. I made that team.
Main Street
And what is sport pistol?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
So sport pistol has two courses of fire. You have slow fire and rapid fire. Slow fire is, they're both 30 shots each.
It's five shots in five minutes. And you get a one-minute load period before that. And then usually you'll have a little break in between, and then you'll shoot rapid fire, which is a little bit more complicated.
And you have to have either turning targets or a light system. And so the target, you'll get the command attention, which you'll go down to a 45-degree angle or lower with your arm, and obviously the pistol. And then the light will turn green, or the target will face you, and you have three seconds to shoot.
And then the target will edge again. And then you have to wait seven seconds before you can shoot again, and it'll face for three seconds.
Main Street
How far are you away from the target?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
25 meters.
Main Street
Is there also a 10-meter competition?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
That's air pistol. So I also shoot that. The last, like, year or so, I've tried to focus more on sport pistol because I don't have that much time to practice anymore.
In high school, I practiced every day after school for two hours, at least. And now in college, I just don't have that time. And it's really hard to get good at something if you only practice it once a week.
Main Street
So Sarai, how do you balance that, then? You probably want to be great. You probably want to be the best, but you also have other goals now with your academics.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yeah, so it's definitely a challenge. And so over the last year, I've started to focus more on sport pistol because I think that I have more potential in sport pistol than air pistol. And I've seen a significant difference in my performance since I've been doing that.
But yeah, it's definitely a challenge to balance it with school.
Main Street
Eric, you also coach coaches around the country. Tell me about that.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
I started in 2005 training coaches. I'll do coach schools, certify coaches in international style shooting. I actually wrote the fundamental chapter in this course.
So they get it right from the horse's mouth. But there's two parts for it. One is the technical side, how to actually shoot.
And then the other side is how to be a coach. To be a really good coach, you have to develop a rapport with a shooter. They have to respect you.
You have to respect them. You have to have that relationship or they'll never listen to you. They'll never, just won't be productive.
And I've done that all over the United States. Soraya, what are your goals with this sport?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yeah, I have goals to make the national team and one day compete at the Olympics.
Main Street
How close are you in your mind to being able to do that? And is there a timeframe? In other words, are shooters generally your age or are they older?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
So there's not really a timeframe. There are shooters at the collegiate level that have competed in the Olympics already. There are athletes that are also a little bit older and also a little bit older than that.
There's no limit. The sport is mostly mental. The only thing that I think is really kind of the limiting factor is if your eyesight starts to go.
Main Street
Even with correction?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
If you just need a correction, that's fine. But some people can't like focus their eyes for long periods of time. So if they're, and when you get older, that also, your ability to focus now will deteriorate when you're older.
And so you might not be able to focus on the sights well enough.
Main Street
You talk about the mental aspects of being a shooter and I want to ask you both this question. Okay. What's the difference between a really, really good shooter and a world-class shooter?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Commitment and passion. So, well, there are people who are just innately good at shooting, but to be really good, you have to be really dedicated and just show up and want to learn and want to do better and not get stuck in your ways and just like listen to what people tell you because you don't know everything and you can't see yourself when you're shooting and so you really do need someone else to help you.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
Coach? Typically people that are good shooters are also very good students because you have to learn to develop this process and you have to settle yourself down and be able to perform it and those same qualities transfer to schooling, they transfer to your life. What really separates, I say, a real champion from an average shooter, the champion has the right attitude and they have that drive in their heart.
I've had the privilege of working with many of our Olympic team and they're the kind of people that the cup is always half full versus the cup is always half empty and that is transposed over the years to I look like people that have the desire in their heart like Soraya does to do it.
Main Street
Soraya, when you and I first met, we were de-planning in Denver at DIA, it just struck me that here you are on your way to compete to ultimately become an Olympian by yourself. No entourage, not with the whole team, it was just you and that just really struck me as to the commitment it must take. How does it feel to have the bar set that high when you're going to a competition like that?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I have my goals set really high because I think that I can do it and I want to go and compete even if my team can't come with me because we would love, the whole team would love to go to all the competitions everywhere but we don't have the funding here to go to all of these competitions. Luckily my parents are very supportive and they help me to go to all these competitions even if the team can't go, I make the effort to go and because I am also a good student, missing a few days of class doesn't really matter, all my professors are like, cool, see you next week. When I was a freshman and I went to Winter Airgun, I wanted to take my final two weeks early to go to this competition, they were like, okay, because I wasn't like, I'll take it in a week after I get back, I was like, I'll take it two weeks early because I wanted to leave and go to this competition.
So when we met in Denver, so I flew from here and my dad flew from Detroit, so he met me in Denver and then we drove down together.
Main Street
Put me in your shoes, the morning of and just before the competition, what do you do, Soraya, to prepare to shoot?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I try to stay pretty relaxed throughout the day and not like when I came, I had a lot of school work to get done because it was like, it was dead week and so I was trying to kind of put school aside and stay relaxed and so I got up, my dad made me breakfast and then we went to the range a little bit early before the competition to kind of relax and just not have to worry about like being late or anything like that. There might be more than one relay and so a relay could be ahead of schedule or behind schedule, it's usually behind schedule, but it's better to show up early than to be in a rush.
Main Street
Are you at the point where you're starting to see the same competitors across the country?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yes.
Main Street
What's your relationship like with those people that have common goals with you, but they are competitors?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Shooting sports is very different than other sports. There's no really animosity towards one another. The competition when you're shooting is really against yourself.
You're trying to do better than you did last time. It's not really against the other people even, like they might be standing next to you, but the competition is really with yourself.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
I could tell you lots of stories about competitors shooting and somebody had trouble and the people you're shooting against are digging in stuff, borrowing you a gun, trying to help you out. Coaches from other teams are trying to help you out and then you may end up getting back going and end up winning the match, but that is what I really love about shooting. You never see a football coach run to the other side of the field to help the opposing, but you see that all the time in this sport.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Eric can't always go with me to my competitions, but stuff breaks and so I've had random people helping me fix my equipment because I sometimes don't know how to fix it.
Main Street
Really enjoying our conversation with Eric Pepke. He's an assistant national pistol coach for USA Shooting and also with Soraya Nevin. She's a graduate student at NDSU and also on NDSU's club shooting team and also has higher goals, which may include the Olympics.
Tell me about the gun you shoot.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
For air pistol, I shoot a Walther and so it has a carbon fiber barrel and it has an air cylinder on the bottom, so it looks kind of futuristic if you ask kind of most people. It has a wooden grip that's been molded to my hand by Eric's son, who is also a shooter. Very good shooter too, in both rifle and pistol.
You'll see kind of that custom molded grip to my hand and then kind of that shiny silver and so that's for air pistol. And then for sport pistol, I shoot a Pardini SP, it's a 22. You'll see a similar wooden grip that's been molded to my hand.
The difference with that is the sport pistol is a lot thicker than the air pistol.
Main Street
Can I ask, how expensive are those guns at your level?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yeah, so the guns that I shoot at my level are what most people shoot at the Olympic level. So, the sport pistol was $2,200 and then I think the air pistol was I think $1,800 and that was bought through a program that Eric and his wife, Char, do. And so they buy it and then you kind of pay in installments to kind of help shooters get into the sport.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
All the serious guns used in this sport are European guns. So the Walther was made in Ulm, Germany and the Pardini is actually made by the Pardini family in Italy.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Like when I was in China, I was asking the other teams like how much they practice and they're like, we practice three hours every day.
Main Street
Does that scare you in a way?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I don't think it intimidates me. I wish I had that kind of time. Like who knows how good I could be if I had that kind of time to practice for three hours every day.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
You know, and that being said, even as we here at NDSU compete with other schools, we only have one night a week to practice. I will have the kids come out on my farm. I have some ranges out there so they can train there a little bit, but some of the other schools have way more training time.
That being said, we do good quality work here and we've won national championships and stuff even though we have a little budget and less training time.
Main Street
If I could ask you right now what you most want to improve, would you have an answer for me?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
My biggest problem when it comes to shooting is actually my mental game. Because like I said, the mental aspect of shooting is the biggest part and that's the biggest part I struggle with. Like I can shoot really well, but my mind gets in the way.
Main Street
Do you have access to tools, Soraya, to help yourself improve your mental aspect of your game?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Eric helps me with it and there's been some books. There's a book by Lainey Basham, I think it's called With Winning in Mind. And so that was a book that's helpful, but it's reading and learning some of the techniques are sometimes easier than actually using them.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
The mental side of it is at her level, it's truly probably 90 plus percent is mental.
Main Street
How do you analyze your performance after a competition? You know a score, I assume. You have this value that's assigned to how you did, but it's so much more than that probably.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I have a journal and so I will actually take notes while I'm shooting. So you can call your shot if you've actually been paying attention. If you do your process and pay attention to where your sights are and continue to watch the sights after you've pulled the trigger, you should have a fairly good idea of where it's going.
You're looking through the sights and you pull the trigger and after you pull the trigger you felt that you jerked your finger a little bit. You're like, okay, and since I'm a left-hand shooter, if I jerk it, it's probably going low right. Based on how much, like what I see my sights move and what I felt my hand do, I can be like, okay, that was probably an eight low right.
So when I am taking notes while I'm shooting, I'm like, okay, that shot, I did not call it. Like I was not paying attention and those are the shots that you really shouldn't take. If you're really not focused on your sights and really following your process, you probably should put it down.
Main Street
At your level at 25 meters, a bad shot is a half inch to the right or left?
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
It depends what you, but yeah, it can just be a little bit or it can be out an inch or two. But basically when she's right on, she's shooting a group that's at 25 meters, that's probably three and a half inches in diameter. And of course you understand you're shooting with one hand and all of this stuff.
Main Street
Did you choose to shoot left-handed because of the strength of your right eye? Did that come into play?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
When I was in high school, I played volleyball, like I mentioned earlier. And so I injured my shoulder pretty bad. I am left eye dominant, but it was mostly the fact that my right shoulder is just absolutely destroyed.
And so I cannot shoot with my right arm without severe pain.
Main Street
Do you feel you might even be better if your right shoulder worked well?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I could potentially be better with my right side because my reaction time is way better. Like I write with my right hand because reaction time is kind of helpful with rapid portion of sport pistol. And so yeah, there is that potential.
Main Street
Tell me about technology as we kind of wrap up our interview today. How do you use technology? I've got to believe now that there's ultra slow motion video available.
I briefly asked you about heart rate and breathing and all of those different things when we first met Soraya. How does technology come into play?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Yeah, so we have a thing called the SCAT machine. An important aspect of shooting is having a consistent hold. And so the machine, it has like a receiver that like attaches to your gun.
And so it tracks your hold as you drop into position. That's really helpful. And that is a tool that Eric uses to like help coach us as well.
And then for my undergrad, my senior design project was a grip sensor because that's not really a thing. And so I created these three sleeves that would be on your, not your thumb and your trigger finger, but on the other three fingers. And so it had a sensor on each of your pads of your fingers.
Main Street
What data is it giving you?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
It would detect changes in pressure. And so if you had a significant change in pressure on one of the like sensors, it would show that.
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
So the idea is from when you start pulling the trigger till it fires, your grip pressure should be consistent. And there up to this time, there was no way to measure that until she invented that.
Main Street
Tell me about the next year or two relative to shooting. Soraya, what's on your plate?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
So I plan on going to part three of the Olympic trials. It's a three part process. We have collegiate nationals coming up and we also have, well, the first we have the qualifying match for nationals, which is next weekend, actually in Ohio state.
We'll be here. And then in March is when nationals is, and then we have USA nationals. I'll probably go to that as well.
Most likely in July, I'll be moving. My shooting will change a lot and I'm not entirely sure what it'll look like wherever I move. I applied to six different schools for my PhD.
We'll see where it goes. I hope to go to Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, but I haven't heard yet.
Main Street
You're in the Olympic qualifying process now, but is it somewhat likely that you potentially could be on the Paris team or is your vision maybe down the road a little bit?
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
Definitely down the road. And the reason, even though I might not, I'm probably not going to this Olympics, is it's still really good to compete and to just have that experience at competing at a high level. So I might not make this one, but it helps me prepare for the next one.
Main Street
And coach, before we let you go, what are your goals for the next year or two or three for the NDSU shooting program?
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
Well, I want to grow it a little bit. I want to be able to, with this range here, they've expanded it a little bit. We're going to be able to hold bigger matches and things.
I just always want to help the shooters realize their dreams. And that's always my goal. So it's a successful program and we want to make it better and better.
Main Street
What would you tell a high school student or even a middle school student on why they should take up shooting?
Eric Pueppke, USAS Assistant National Pistol Coach and NDSU Club Shooting Coach
Shooting is one of the few sports, nobody sits on the bench. Everybody competes. Big, little, short, tall, it doesn't make any difference.
You can do well. And it's just a great rewarding sport. Soraya will say how our team is like a family.
And through the years, previous shooters, they become best friends, they've been best friends for years. That's the great thing about this sport.
Main Street
After our interview, I asked Soraya if she would take me to the range and show me how she shoots. Just a warning to our listeners, there are some loud sounds in this portion of our interview. I began by asking Soraya how she prepares for competition.
Soraya Nevin, NDSU Graduate Student and Pistol Shooter
I use box breathing. In for four, hold for four, out for four, hold for four. I usually do that with my eyes closed.
And then I also practice visualization in preparation for shooting. And so I have a very specific process that I follow when I shoot. And so when I come here, when other people are here, I try to get as far away from other people as I can.
Because this is a range that you can shoot a lot bigger calipers than a .22 and it's loud. If you eat different foods, you might have like, your hands might swell up differently. Also just like food has an impact on how you feel.
So I actually track everything that I eat. Over the last year and a half, I've lost 35 pounds because along with that, I've been weight training, been doing a lot of like lifting and strengthening my arms, but also I feel better. But so these little tables, so you saw how there were benches up here before.
You can't use the benches because you need to go down to your 45. So most people are definitely not tall enough to be at a 45 and still be standing at the table. So that's why we use these little side tables because then you can have it at whatever height you want to place your gun and then you can just stand on the side of it and be able to bring it down.
So this is my shooting case. Most people have one that's a lot smaller than this because most people put their guns in here just in the foam out. I leave all my stuff together.
So like this is a gun case, that's a gun case, my shoes. So they have a completely flat bottom. For pistol, you can't have anything coming up against your ankle.
So I couldn't shoot in these because it comes past my ankle. The target is 55 inches at center. So this is my journal that I track all my stuff in.
So I'll have scores and then I'll have little notes about whether it was on call or not on call or I should have aborted that shot or whether or not I might have been focused or not. Or when I shoot with my phone timer, I'll be like, okay, I think that might have been late. Because I can still see the shot on the thing, but I'm like, that might have been late.
And I used to also stand, like have a pretty wide stance, but I've, I now shoot like this. Yeah. So when you're stand more perpendicular, cause like the whole thing is you want to rely on your bones.
You don't want to rely on your muscle. So that's kind of why I transitioned from here for your arm muscles. You use different muscles to be here versus here.
It's also easier to be more consistent if you just line up straight, cause you can just be straight with the wall. So these are my glasses that I use. They look really funky.
So you can like extend the ear pieces. You can change how far apart these are. You can either have like the full black.
If you even like, if you just stick out your arm and have both eyes open and try to look at the target and then close one, your hand will be in a different spot. Yes. Because you don't want to try to close one eye like physically.
It's cause that's really straining on both eyes. So you want it occluded, but you don't want to strain that eye, which is why I like this one versus this one is cause you still want light to go to the other eye cause not having light to the other eye. You can have whatever you want correction in this lens.
So now I have two and a half minutes to shoot and I need to move my sights. I'll probably take another shot before I move my sights again.
NOTE: This transcript was generated by Artificial Intelligence. The official record of the show is the audio recording.