Show segments:
Masters of the Air
North Dakota artist Scott Nelson paintings of World War II aviators are on permanent display at the Dakota Territory Air Museum. One of his artworks, depicting a B-17 bomber adorned with the "Oh Baby" nose art, was adopted by the creators of "Masters of the Air," a series now streaming on Apple TV, and incorporated into the series.
Prairie Plates
Rick Gion talks about Irish Food in this edition of Prairie Plates
Capital Curling Club, Bismarck
In an excerpt from the Great American Folk Show Tom Brosseau has engaging discussion at the Capital Curling Club in Bismarck, North Dakota. He explores the sport's rich heritage, tracing its origins from Canada and Scotland to its status as North Dakota's official state sport, thanks to a sixth grader's initiative. The story highlights the club's evolution from rudimentary beginnings to a well-established community, emphasizing the pivotal role of key figures like John Mielke in fostering the sport's growth.
Scott Nelson Interview Highlights:
- Influence on "Masters of the Air": Scott Nelson's paintings of World War II aviators, especially those from North Dakota, influenced the production of the series "Masters of the Air," now streaming on Apple TV. His artwork depicting a B-17 bomber played a role in the series' development.
- George Ott's Story: Nelson shared the story of George Ott, a B-17 pilot shot down and taken prisoner during World War II. Ott's experiences, including his survival and capture, provided inspiration for Nelson's paintings.
- Encounter with Gale "Buck" Clevin: Nelson recounted a significant meeting with Gale "Buck" Clevin, a veteran with a remarkable but largely untold story of service and survival during the war. This meeting spurred Nelson to create a painting in Clevin's honor, which also contributed to the narrative in "Masters of the Air."
- Veteran Stories and Artistic Process: The interview highlights Nelson's process of engaging with veterans, learning their stories, and conducting research to accurately depict their experiences in his artwork. This process underscores the deep respect and commitment Nelson has for preserving the history and sacrifices of WWII aviators.
- Legacy and Memory: Nelson discussed the importance of remembering the contributions and sacrifices of WWII veterans through art. He highlighted how his paintings at the Dakota Territory Air Museum serve as a permanent tribute to these individuals, emphasizing the significance of storytelling in preserving history.
Scott Nelson - Interview Transcript
Main Street
Scott Nelson is a writer for Dakota Datebook and also an accomplished artist. Recently, one of his paintings influenced the production of the series Masters of the Air, which is now streaming on Apple TV. Scott, welcome to Main Street.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yeah, hi.
Main Street
Good to visit with you again, Scott. Tell me the story, if you know the story, of how the production team came to use one of your paintings in Masters of the Air.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Well, I'll have to go way back. 20 years ago, I started doing these paintings based on World War II aviators, mostly from North Dakota. George Ott was one.
He was a B-17 pilot, and he flew deputy lead at the 2nd Schweinfurt. He was shot down, he was taken prisoner, and he ended up in Stalag Luft III. I did the painting based on what had happened to him when his plane was shot down, and he was coming down to the ranch to view the painting.
He says, oh, by the way, I got a friend that's living in Dickinson now, and we use old war buddy, and could I bring him down? I said, well, certainly, the more the merrier. Well, he comes down, and he introduces me to this kind of a slight white-haired man with eye patch.
His name is Gale Clevin, went by Buck Clevin. Well, and then there was a guy from TV down. They actually did a story on George and his painting and his flying deputy lead at the 2nd Schweinfurt.
This reporter asked, well, George says, well, this Buck Clevin, he's got quite a story to tell, and this reporter tried to get his story. Nope, nope, he wasn't gonna say nothing. He did say he was in the 100th Bomb Group, and he'd flown in the first Schweinfurt raid, which was August 17th of 43, but they went on to bomb Regensburg.
Other than that, he wouldn't say nothing. It was George's day, and then he was gonna be in the background. Well, a couple days later, I was up here in Mandan, and I was at another veteran's place, Dick Barron.
He was a P-47 fighter pilot, and he had some books laying on his table, and I picked one up and opened it. It was, the name was Double Raid by Edward Jablinski. No kidding, the page I opened up, it was a picture of Gale Clevin.
Wow. And I said, I looked at Dick. I says, this guy was in my house just the other day.
I got Buck's phone number from George Ott, and I called him. I says, you know, a funny thing happened the other day. I found this book, and here you're in this book.
Yeah, he says that author spread it on a little too thick. Then I started finding him written in on all these books. At this time, I was interviewing for the Veteran History Project, and I could not get him to do an interview.
You know, he just would not talk about it, but I got, I gleaned that he was shot down on the Bremen mission of October 8th, 1943, exactly a week earlier than George Ott was shot down, but I'd go up, and I'd have coffee with them guys, or we'd go out for a meal in Dickinson, and Buck and George would sit and visit about all the stuff that happened in Stalag Lutherie. You know, mostly the humorous stuff that happened. They never did into the dark stuff.
I was invited down to Lemon, November 11th, Veterans Day of 2003, and the guy down there was putting on this deal for Veterans Day, wanted me to bring my paintings down. Plus, then he invited all these veterans, and most of them came down to this deal. Well, I didn't have a painting of Buck, but I knew he was in the 100th Bomb Group, and they had a big square D on the tail, and the thing is, why they were going down there, he was actually born near Lemon.
So George and Buck went down early in the day, and they went and found his homestead down south of Lemon, and so that was the reason, and he had no idea anything else was gonna happen, but I did this painting, just a real quick watercolor.
Main Street
Of a B-17?
Scott Nelson, Artist
A B-17 from the 100th Bomb Group, and that's pretty much all it was, and there was some German planes in there and stuff. I was bringing up these big paintings, and then I'd tell the story, and then the veteran would come up and kinda tell his side of it. I don't know, I did four or five, and there was, I know Dick Barron was down there, and Noble Peterson, and George Ott, and toward the last, I said, well, I got a little surprise, and I brought out this watercolor and set it on the easel, and I says, well, now, he don't talk much, but this represents Buck Clevin, and he was in the 100th Bomb Group, and he was shot down at Bremen, October 8th of 43.
Main Street
This is all well-discussed in Masters of the Air.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yes.
Main Street
That's streaming now on Apple TV.
Scott Nelson, Artist
And I said, now, he's a little shy, but maybe, maybe we can get him up to talk, and he actually got up and talked, which he rarely ever did. Well, practically didn't, and that's the only videotape they have of Buck, and he got up and talked and told what, very humorous. Everything he talked about was humorous.
Kind of had a quip, you know, kind of a low-key sense of humor, dry sense of humor. Well, two days after that happened, I get a letter in the mail a big, fat letter. Here, it's his copies of his journal he kept at Stalag Blue 3 that tells all about getting shot down.
He knew the plane was called our baby, but that was the only time he ever flew that plane because he was a squadron leader. He never had his own plane. He was flying different planes within the squadron.
I contacted Michael Fahley of the 100th Bomb Group, and he had all the information on the plane, you know, all its markings, and see, Buck flew off to Bremen, and he didn't come back. And so, they're wanting the audience to feel, well, was he killed? Was he wounded?
Is he a POW, is he evading? See, nobody, and that's the way it was back then. The plane, and they said he went down with no shoots.
Well, that's a bad sign because that could mean they were all killed. So, they didn't know. So, they wanted the audience to feel that like they felt back at base because the story has been Buck and Egan up to this point, pretty much.
All of a sudden, Buck's gone. Was he killed, you know?
Main Street
As you're watching Masters of the Air, Scott, the intensity of what these airmen went through, it's emotional. And you know their stories well and now have seen this. What has been going through your mind as you've been watching what they endured?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Well, it's pretty much the way they described because it was very intense. Unbelievable courage. George Ottson at the 2nd's Feinfurt, there were German bombers flying over them, dropping bombs on them.
They had twin engine fighters with rockets on them that were lobbing rockets into the formations. And he said they were just getting hit from every direction. So, very much, they did depict that very well.
Some people might think it was overdone. It's not.
Main Street
How did you feel when you were watching it?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Well, knowing Buck the way I did, it was kind of hard to get used to Ottson Butler playing him. The thing is, there's so much there. And there was so much to cover.
Now, if they could make like an 18 part series out of it, maybe they could cover, but they miss so many important parts. Because they just cannot cover it because it's all, you know, like I would have liked to seen the early stuff during training, like they did in Band of Brothers and that. Because there was one part in there, they were, I think they were based in Nebraska.
And then they tried to fly everybody to California. When they got in the air, they just went all, most, a lot of them went and visited their girlfriends. And it was, they almost broke up the group because of that.
Main Street
And these are airmen who two or three years prior really didn't know what an airplane was. And now all of a sudden by the hundreds, if not the thousands, these young men were being trained to fly.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yep. And all these kids, you know, that grew up just dreaming of flying an airplane, but you know, it was the thirties and their money was tight and there was no way. But here it is, the war came along and allowed them to become pilots and air crew members on these planes.
Main Street
When did you realize that you wanted to remember, recreate the great World War II paintings that you've done?
Scott Nelson, Artist
I did one painting of a B-17 and some German fighters, but it was just all from, you know, just, I got some books and looked at them, looked at the pictures, but it was, everything was wrong, of course, because, you know, I didn't do the research. It wasn't anything that actually happened, but then I got to thinking, you know, I want to interview somebody. And I really didn't know anybody that had, that I didn't think because these guys didn't stand out.
But it turned out, you know, they're all around us, you know, these aviators and World War II veterans, you know, because so many of them never talked about it. When I started with Noble Peterson, well, then people started coming to me. You got to talk to this guy.
You got to talk to that guy. There was a guy in our church, Ed Atkinson. And they said, you got to talk to him.
You know, he flew during the war and he was shot down. And I had never known it. Knew him very well, but you know, he wasn't somebody that ever talked about flying.
He flew L4s, which was the most feared plane. But now you'd think, oh, the B-17s or the P-51s, the Germans would fear them the most. No, it was the little L4 Piper Cub because they could fly above the battlefield and direct the whole battalion of artillery on a target.
They were scared to death of those little planes.
Main Street
I've flown in a B-17, Scott, and I know that you haven't gotten the opportunity to do that. What's striking to me is, and they talk about this in Masters of the Air, is the environment inside the plane. If it's 20 below outside, it's maybe not quite 20 below, but it is dang cold inside.
Scott Nelson, Artist
They're not- Well, up to 50 below.
Main Street
They're not, yeah, up to 50 below is in series. There's no insulation, no heaters, and you've got gunners that are exposed and all of a sudden they're hit and now their window's open.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yep.
Main Street
And they endured this.
Scott Nelson, Artist
And they had heated suits, but so many times those heated suits malfunctioned, and so they were just, you just can imagine, like if it's 30 below, like it is in North Dakota here sometimes, going out and they're not, they're pretty much just sitting. They're not real active unless you're a gunner and you're working your gun and stuff.
Main Street
How many World War II paintings do you think you painted?
Scott Nelson, Artist
All of them are up at Minot Air Museum, Dakota Territory Air Museum, and I think I got something like 15 up there. It's 15 paintings.
Main Street
We're recording this in the Mandan Public Library, and there are several prints of your paintings here for people to see. How did your relationship begin with the Dakota Territory Air Museum?
Scott Nelson, Artist
I'd go out and kind of have showings and that, and there was a guy that came to me and he was a board member up there. Why, he was thinking maybe I'd put prints up there. And I said, actually, I'm looking for a place for these paintings.
And I said, I wanna, I don't wanna sell them. I wanna keep them all together. I want them someplace where people will see them.
And he says, boy, do we have a deal for you. I call them on loan because if ever something would happen to the museum, I wouldn't want them to be sold off. I'd like to take possession of them again.
But they set up a gallery up there with my paintings and they have the stories on them. And that's what's most important is the paintings are okay, but it's the stories behind them is what's really important.
Main Street
And because of those stories, were they ever difficult for you to paint? How did you make that transition from creating something that is, it's beautiful. And I hesitate to use that word because you know what's behind every brushstroke that you made.
Scott Nelson, Artist
When I first started, I took the veteran's word for everything. You know, what they told me is what I put in the painting. I didn't do any research.
Well, I found out I had to do research because they'd get things wrong and it wasn't on purpose. They just remember things wrong. Like when Del Skay told me about when he flew in his bomb group, he said they were olive drab.
Well, he actually flew out of Rapid City down here with B-17s and they were olive drab. But by the time he'd got over to England, they were using the unpainted ones, the silver ones. But in his mind, he was still flying the green ones.
So I painted it in olive drab, which was wrong. And I had the markings wrong on it because I just went by what he said. From there, I learned I had to start researching because it was one thing what they said, and then it was quite another sometimes with what actually happened.
You know, there are memories after that many years and they just misremembered things. And so I, and that's why when I did this stuff on Buck, Michael Fahley really helped me out because he had all that information that Buck didn't know. And so that was a big part of it.
Then I'd get the story, I'd research the story. And then I'd usually, you know, these bomb groups and stuff, they'd have a website and they'd have a historian. And then I'd contact them.
And then a lot of times they'd have the mission reports so I could go off of them. That was a learning, kind of a learning curve for me.
Main Street
Did you learn about why the plane was named Our Baby?
Scott Nelson, Artist
No, I mean, that was just, you know, sometimes the people that named it weren't around anymore and it was just something that, yeah, I don't know. And there was no pictures of it. And so when Buck said it was Our Baby and I contacted Mike Fahley and I says, is there any pictures of these planes?
So many times there was pictures, but there was no picture. Well, not, there was some pictures but you couldn't see the nose art on it.
Main Street
You have watched veterans look at these pictures. What have they told you? What have they told you about what you've allowed people to remember?
Scott Nelson, Artist
I don't get much comments out of the veterans themselves.
Main Street
Really?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yeah. It's other people that are interested in it. They really appreciate them.
Main Street
A part of history that America maybe has, is starting to forget about a little bit?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Oh, I think so. Yeah. Masters of the Air touches on it.
But you know, when they went over there and started bombing Germany, you know, and they said, well, you know, Europe was a fortress, you know, occupied by Germany, Nazi Germany, but it didn't have a roof over it. Well, they wouldn't start it and the English would bomb at night. Americans do daylight bombing.
And they had so many planes. In the beginning, in 43, they had so many planes shot down. So many people killed.
It was a failure, you know, and we weren't doing the damage to the submarine pens and stuff. And they actually should have probably quit. But if they would have quit the bombing offensive, because what they were using these bombers for was bait to bring up the German fighters.
And once they got the P-51 in there at the end of 43, they wiped out the German Air Force. In the beginning, it was a total failure. I mean, they were losing, you know, sometimes they'd get all their planes shot down.
You know, the 2nd Schweinfurt, they lost 60 planes, 600 air crew members. And the damage they did to the ball bearing plants was minimal. And plus they were buying ball bearings from Sweden and Switzerland.
They had all kinds of ball bearings and they didn't find that out after the war. You know, we lost so much more.
Main Street
You told me off, Mike, that it's going to now be difficult for you to paint more pictures because the veterans that you'd want to talk to aren't here anymore.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Right. Well, and people have said, well, you should do Vietnam and stuff. And I'm just not interested.
I don't know, getting to know these guys and getting to be good friends with them. And then losing them. That's what happened, you know?
Cause I was still young and they were, you know, up in their eighties and nineties. And you know, that was hard.
Main Street
Have you had any more contact with the filmmakers after you learned that Our Baby was then used in Masters of the Year?
Scott Nelson, Artist
You've seen the first episode and it's the bar scene. The day that was filmed, Don Miller, author of Masters of the Year, called me from London and I called him back. He says, the director is having a problem with Buck, Cleveland and Egan.
And he said, they are so different. And he says, is there anything that you could tell us that would, you know, cause what did they have in common? You know, all the time I knew Buck, he never, never mentioned Egan.
He died, Egan died fairly young. He was in his forties. So, but, so I couldn't help him out, but we talked for 20 minutes about, you know, about Buck and stuff, but I wasn't able to help him.
Main Street
What inspired you to become an artist? I think you've told me before you're self-taught.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Yeah, my mom said that as soon as I could, I wasn't even walking yet, but I got ahold of a piece of paper and a pencil and I was on the floor, floor drawing pictures. The folks sent me, cause I showed an interest in art and they sent me to some class in Bismarck one time. And, and I wanted to draw what I wanted to draw and they were trying to get me to draw other stuff.
And it, it just didn't work out. I want to draw dinosaurs and horses and- Where'd you grow up, Scott? 30 miles South of Mandan on our place homesteaded by my grandparents in 1908.
Main Street
And you're still there today.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Oh yes. I never learned to do nothing else. I still don't know what I want to be when I grew up, in fact.
Main Street
How did that influence, do you think, your being able to be such a great painter?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Oh, I'm not a great painter. I think you are. I'm way down.
When you look at the other stuff, and the only reason this one is because it's connected to Buck. And that's, if, if this wasn't had anything to do with Buck, it would be just another picture. I mean, there is some really good artwork out there.
Main Street
You had an event, Scott, at the Heritage Center in Bismarck. What was that about?
Scott Nelson, Artist
About the stories, and telling the stories of just a lot of what I was telling you here. And then leading into this Masters of the Air and the connection that this Buck Clevin had, you know, with North Dakota and Lemon, and the fact that he had lived a couple of years in Dickinson.
Main Street
Are all of your paintings signed by the people that you wanted to paint?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Most of them are. But the last one I did, he passed away before I was able to get him to sign it. And that kinda, then after that, I wasn't, didn't have a lot of interest because they were too aged, their memories are gone and stuff.
And that's where I just kinda quit with it, yeah.
Main Street
What reaction did you get when they would sign your paintings?
Scott Nelson, Artist
Look at it and they'd say, oh yeah, that's pretty good. Other people could pick out, if I got stuff wrong in it, other people could pick it out. But the veterans would never do that.
They'd just look at it. Yep, yep, that's pretty much the way it is, you know.
Main Street
What's next for you in the art world? Scott, are you done? Or are we gonna see more work from you?
Scott Nelson, Artist
I just take one day at a time, so.
Main Street
You like to write quite a bit? Do you prefer writing now more so than your artwork?
Scott Nelson, Artist
I do, I can express myself better. I actually write a column and then to keep my artwork going, I include a little sketch or a little watercolor in the column just to keep my art side going with it, so.
Main Street
Where can people learn more about your work?
Scott Nelson, Artist
They can go to scottnelsonart.com and there's quite a bit there. So I don't keep it up like I should, but yeah, there's stuff there.
Main Street
I would encourage listeners to go take a look because, Scott, I think your work is representative. You can see the emotion that was occurring when many of these either fighters or bombers were being shot down, crew members jumping out of the airplanes. It's all there, Scott.
You've done a wonderful job.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Well, and any one of these guys, they could write a book because the stuff that they went through is just, but you know, so much was happening during World War II. You know, there were so many stories and so many heroes and, you know, something happens now, right away they got a book deal, you know, that if they were on a plane that went down or rescued, you know, it's, and this, it was all, and the thing was they didn't talk about it. Many of them didn't talk about it till they got old enough where they could finally open up and they needed somebody there to kind of, because they didn't think anybody was interested, but they needed somebody there and I kind of learned the language, you know, and I knew how many crew members were on a bomber and I knew to kind of what they flew and all their duties and that kind of got them to open up where they wouldn't, you know, normally.
Because I heard stories that the kids never heard.
Main Street
Scott, thanks for joining us on Main Street.
Scott Nelson, Artist
Okay, yeah, thank you very much.
NOTE: This transcript was generated using AI tools. The official record is the audio of the show.