Listening To America with Clay Jenkinson
Sundays at 11am on FM-1 and FM-3
After more than two decades of devoting 52 programs per year to the life and achievement of Thomas Jefferson, Clay Jenkinson is ready to widen the lens. He has wanted all of his life to head out on the open road, to "light out for the territories before it's too late," to explore when John Steinbeck called "this monster country."
So welcome to Listening to America with Clay Jenkinson. The public radio program and podcast—which is distributed nationally by Prairie Public— will exhibit more continuity than change. Mr. Jefferson will still make regular appearances to articulate his vision of an agrarian, libertarian republic. So, too, will his regular, esteemed guests. They will explore other periods of American history and wrestle with some of the opportunities and challenges of our times in ways that Mr. Jefferson would not recognize.
Clay writes, "I want to do my small part in urging us to have a conversation of good will in which we try to find consensus on the history, the meaning, and the purpose of America, warts and all, but not without genuine celebration of all of the many many things that are right with America."
Latest Episodes
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Guest host David Horton of Radford University and Clay discuss the history of Christmas, especially its modern invention during the mid 19th century in England and the United States. Thomas Jefferson, a deist, did not celebrate Christmas, but as someone who grew up in the Anglican tradition, he did not shun it the way New England Puritans of the period did. Jefferson was likelier to observe Boxing Day than Christmas, which protestants regarded as another Saint's Day. Clay recites Waddie Mitchell's cowboy poem about Christmas. Clay and David exchange Christmas memories and their favorite recipes for Christmas cookies. At the end of the program, Clay reads his favorite Christmas story, a chapter from Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House on the Prairie.
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Clay welcomes University of North Texas historian Geoffrey Wawro for a discussion of the War in Vietnam (1961–1975), which cost more than 58,000 American lives and hundreds of thousands of deaths in North and South Vietnam. Wawro, the author of seven books on the history of war, explains how a superpower got into a quagmire in a small Asian country. Why did Lyndon Johnson escalate the war between 1964 and 1968, when President John F. Kennedy made it clear that he would wind down America’s involvement after he was re-elected in 1964? As the British essayist Christopher Hitchens insisted, is Henry Kissinger a war criminal? What was Richard Nixon’s role in prolonging the agony? How should we assess Secretary of War Robert McNamara? Absent politics, could the war theoretically have been won by the United States and its reluctant allies?
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One of Clay’s favorite guests, Beau Breslin, talks about the early National Period as rife with conspiracy theories. The Declaration of Independence, for example, argued that the ministry and crown of England were engaged in a systematic conspiracy to “enslave” the colonists. Beau argues that the Constitutional Convention of 1787 was a conspiracy—even a cabal—of self-selected white men aiming to tear up the legitimate Articles of Confederation without authorization and begin again. The existing Articles authorized a few amendments but not a wholesale rewriting of the nation’s social contract. We also discuss the South’s paranoid (but sometimes legitimate) feeling that the faraway national government, dominated by commercial and industrial interests, was destroying Southern state sovereignty and meddling with an institution they could not possibly know enough about. And, at the end, we take a quick look at one of the enduring conspiracy theories in America: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
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Clay's and his close friend, Russ Eagle, journey from New Orleans to Shreveport. Then, from Jackson, Mississippi, to Birmingham, Alabama to visit civil rights sites and shrines. John Steinbeck witnessed the appauling white response to the integration of the schools in New Orleans in December of 1960 and was so repulsed by what he saw that he gave up his journey. He simply bolted home to New York City. Clay ends his 2024 Travels With Charley journey by finding a better way to wrestle with the unresolved race issues in America. Russ and Clay conclude that every American should make a journey of this sort. They also learned that the country's race history is much more problematic than they previously knew.
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Clay welcomes fellow Chautauquan Steve Duchrow of Illinois for a conversation about portraying historical characters. Clay does six or seven; Steve portrays the poets Carl Sandburg and Vachel Lindsay. They discuss how to choose a character. How do you prepare for your first performance and the five hundredth? Why is it important not to work from a script? How do you take unscripted questions from the audience in character? Clay and Steve discuss Sandburg, Abraham Lincoln, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, Meriwether Lewis, and John Steinbeck, among other subjects, about heroism, tragedy, and the intractable contradictions in the human character. What did Oppenheimer mean when he said, “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds?”
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Clay talks with guest host David Horton about America’s obsession with conspiracy theories, from the notion that the moon landing in 1969 was faked on a Hollywood sound stage to the view that 9-11 was an inside job designed to secure more oil for the United States and justify a war against Islam. What is the psychology of this strange phenomenon? Do the perpetrators believe their assertions, or are they merely seeking fame and profit? What should we make of obviously false claims, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene’s insistence that Jewish lasers touched off the forest fires in California or Alex Jones’ appalling claim that the Sandy Hook school shooting was an inside job perpetrated to lock up America’s guns? Because Clay recently spent a couple of days in Dallas, Texas, exploring the landscape of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, a considerable portion of the program explores the conspiracy theories around that horrific event. Are Americans more susceptible to conspiracy theories than other people around the world? If so, what does this signify?
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In an interview recorded on October 29, 2024, Clay interviews the eminent classicist, Edward Watts of the University of California, San Diego, on the collapse of the American narrative. The old narrative that began when Columbus bumped into the New World and then moved through the colonial period, the American Revolution, the Westering movement, the Indian Wars, and America’s reluctant intervention in the 20th century’s two world wars has been discredited by the cultural revolution of the last 30 years. It is now possible to imagine an American narrative that would satisfy most of the constituencies of the United States. What happens when a nation loses its capacity to understand its mission, values, and history? Professor Watts is one of the world’s leading experts on the collapse of the Roman Republic. How did Rome recover after its disastrous Civil Wars? Can America learn from Rome’s example?
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Guest host David Horton welcomes the Third President of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, to the program to talk about what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they designed the system of American elections. Why did the Founders give two senators to each state? How was the controversy between big and little states resolved, and how has it influenced American history? What was the original purpose of the Electoral College, and to what extent should it mirror the popular vote? How did the odious 3/5 clause impact early American elections, including Jefferson’s election in 1800? Why did Jefferson argue for tearing up the Constitution once per generation, perhaps every 19 years? How important was slavery to the debates in Philadelphia in 1787? Were the Founders really opposed to democracy?
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Clay discusses his foray into Texas on Phase Three of the great John Steinbeck Travels with Charley 2024 tour. How is Texas different from other states? Can anyone really eat at the Big Texas Steak Ranch and survive? Is the Cadillac Ranch near Amarillo as worthy as Carhenge in Alliance, Nebraska? Why are Texans nicer IN Texas than when they drive their giant white pickups into other states? The program includes Clay’s interlude in Birmingham, Alabama, where he toured the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute, including an encounter with the actual steel bars of the jail where Martin Luther King wrote “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” Plus, Clay’s guide to the 2024 Presidential Election.
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Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Clay about the third phase of his 2024 Steinbeck "Travels with Charley" tour. Russ was in North Carolina, Clay, at an RV park in eastern New Mexico on the legendary Route 66. They discussed Steinbeck's purpose for his 1960 truck camper Odyssey. Did he achieve his goal? Why wasn't Steinbeck interested in America's National Parks, many of which he could easily have visited? What was Steinbeck's state of mind as he set out to search for America? How important is his aristocratic French poodle, Charley, to the book's success? Clay also covers his recent cultural tour of Literary England and a visit to Arches and Canyonlands National Parks in Utah in search of the legacy of Edward Abbey, the anarchist and wilderness lover who wrote Desert Solitaire in 1968. And Clay's so-far unsuccessful search for America's best gumbo.