LEILA FADEL, HOST:
The fears of all-out war in the Middle East grow as world leaders gather for the United Nations General Assembly.
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ANTONIO GUTERRES: Lebanon is at the brink. The people of Lebanon, the people of Israel and the people of the world cannot afford Lebanon to become another Gaza.
FADEL: U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres spoke to the opening session about the same time that health officials in Lebanon announced more than 550 were killed and thousands more were wounded in a single 24-hour period - the deadliest day in Lebanon in decades. Thousands of civilians are fleeing Israeli airstrikes, searching for safety. What will it take to de-escalate? To talk about this, Matt Duss is with me in the studio this morning. He is the executive vice president at the Center for International Policy. It's a nonprofit research and advocacy organization that's been critical of Israel's war in Gaza and the response from the U.S. Matt, thanks for being here.
MATT DUSS: Very glad to be here. Thanks.
FADEL: So 150 women and children among those killed in the strikes - this, of course, after Israel was blamed for turning pagers and hand-held radios that Hezbollah uses into little bombs that exploded in civilian areas. Why the dramatic escalation now?
DUSS: Well, I think we should go back to, you know, the attacks of October 7 and the days...
FADEL: Yes.
DUSS: ...Immediately after, which is when Hezbollah, you know, started launching quite a few rockets into northern Israel, which has caused some 60,000 Israelis to have to flee their homes...
FADEL: Yeah.
DUSS: ...In northern Israel in those communities, which - they have not been able to return. That rocket fire has continued. It has increased at certain times, except...
FADEL: Right, and that's for almost a year now.
DUSS: For almost a year now. As this war has gone on, it's hard to believe we're almost a year into this catastrophic war. But, you know, there have been - a few weeks ago, there was a strike on a playground, which killed a number of children in northern Israel...
FADEL: Twelve kids, yeah.
DUSS: ...To which Israel responded. But I think what we're seeing now is, you know, an increase in the Israeli strikes on Lebanon against Hezbollah because they believe they've kind of managed the situation in Gaza. And I hesitate to use that term, manage. But I do also think it's - we have to understand that part of what's driving this is Netanyahu's belief that his only chance for political survival is to prolong and expand this war. He understands that, as soon as this war comes to an end, he is going to face accountability for the failures of October 7, and that is something he would very, very much like to avoid.
FADEL: Now, you point out tens of thousands of Israelis have been evacuated from their homes. They want to go home, and the Israeli government says this is the way to make it safe - this escalation. Is this the way to do that?
DUSS: It does not seem like that. Just hours ago, we saw a strike on Tel Aviv, which is the farthest south, I believe, that...
FADEL: Right.
DUSS: ...Hezbollah has launched in this engagement. Everyone understands that Hezbollah has tens of thousands of rockets and missiles and weapons that they could use if this war were to seriously escalate. But I think the approach that we see from the Israeli military here is, you know - and I hate using this term, but they call it mowing the lawn, where you will have a conflict - a brief conflict which will buy some time and some space. But this is far worse than we've seen, just as the Gaza war is far worse than previous wars. But, again, there is really no longer-term strategy here other than to strike hard at the enemy, to kind of do some damage to their capabilities, to their weapon stores, and hope that you can buy some normalcy. But again, we see the cycle, time after time, returning to this conflict. It is really intolerable for everyone.
FADEL: Yeah, that strike toward Tel Aviv was intercepted. So what should Israel do to make it stop?
DUSS: Well, I think this all comes back to Gaza. I mean, Hezbollah has made clear that the rocket fire will stop when the Gaza war stops. There had been, of course, an effort by the Biden administration, starting four months ago, to get a permanent cease-fire. That is - U.S. policy, as of the end of May, was to bring this war to an end. At least, that's Biden's stated policy. Unfortunately, he's not been able to get that agreement. And one of the reasons why - as I said, Netanyahu has no interest in ending this war. He has made this clear. It's been reported. We've seen numerous comments by Israeli officials, Israeli security officials, that Netanyahu is the one who continues to undermine these cease-fire negotiations.
But unfortunately, President Biden still refuses to apply real pressure and use real leverage, in the form of arms sales, to really push Netanyahu to agree to that cease-fire. The United States is the only country in the world that can impose those costs, and, unfortunately, President Biden is still unwilling to do that.
FADEL: Matt Duss is from the Center for International Policy. Thank you, Matt.
DUSS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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