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SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
We are in the last few days of the 2024 campaign, both campaigns swinging from swing state to swing state, if you please. Former President Trump and Vice President Harris both held rallies last night in Wisconsin.
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DONALD TRUMP: We don't want your money. I don't want your money. I want your damn vote, OK? We want that vote.
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VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: And for you who have not voted yet, no judgment. Let me just be clear - no judgment at all. But do get to it if you can (laughter). And for those who have not yet voted, please think about, right now, your plan for voting.
SIMON: Ron Elving joins us. Morning, Ron.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: You've covered so many presidential campaigns. What strikes you about this election in the final week?
ELVING: Just how close it's been all fall and how unpredictable the outcome remains. Back in 2000, there were five states where the winner won by less than 1%. This time, we could have seven states that close, according to the polling. So it is truly anyone's guess at this point, Scott. No one knows what will happen.
SIMON: And the candidates have been hitting those seven states almost to the exclusion (laughter) of the 43 other states in this country. Is this intense concentration worth it?
ELVING: It's all about having near constant media attention across those seven states, especially on local TV. People love to feel loved, and voters love to see the candidates right there in their own broadcast area. So we have become accustomed to seeing a frenzy of travel and rally, travel and rally in the final days and even hours. Trump did five rallies in three swing states in the last 24 hours of his campaign in 2020. So no one can sit back and risk leaving votes on the table or giving an opponent the last word in one particular media market.
SIMON: Also, this week, Donald Trump attacked Liz Cheney, the former Republican House member, who has endorsed Kamala Harris. I won't attempt to paraphrase. Here is what he said.
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TRUMP: She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, OK? Let's see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face.
SIMON: Has Trump said things in this campaign - appalling, profane and violent things - that go by without public outrage or comment while other political figures are held to a higher standard?
ELVING: From Day 1 in Trump's first campaign, in 2015, he has set a kind of negative standard by which he can say ever more shocking things, and we all expect him to get away with it. His defenders are used to saying, that's just Trump being Trump. He just says stuff. He's my guy, and I'm voting for him. So now he's talking about training nine gun barrels on Liz Cheney's face, like a firing squad. Does that jar some of his voters?
We know there are tens of millions of people who are committed to him - call it a movement, call it a cult - they are committed. But there's a smaller group of voters who may have doubts at times. Lifetime voters, longtime Republicans, who feel deep devotion to their side and deep aversion to the Democrats - they voted for Trump in '16 and 2020. Some may stop and ask whether this Trump is quite the same man this time. Their number may not be large, but they are potentially the difference in this election.
SIMON: And of course, these comments get a lot of attention.
ELVING: Trump has used taboo-busting behavior strategically to dominate media coverage at moments such as this. The election is next week, and who are we talking about, Scott? Donald Trump. Dominating the discourse has been his strategy in business and in media and in politics. It's been a key to his power as a public figure and a key to his power as a president and former president and candidate for president.
SIMON: As we speak, Ron, we don't know when this election will be decided, just how much the results might be challenged. What possibilities do we face after polls close Tuesday?
ELVING: The least likely would be a clear-cut win for either candidate on election night. It may take days to count some of the swing states because of their rules. After that, we can expect to see lawsuits by the losing candidate and weeks of wrangling in the courts and quite possibly more drama when the Electoral College vote comes back to Congress for certification in January. It's time we all took a very deep breath.
SIMON: Ah. NPR's Ron Elving, thanks very much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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