A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Beijing is defending its decision to sentence dozens of pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong to jail terms of up to 10 years. The government handed down the stiff sentences yesterday, charging them all with breaking a 2021 national security law for the roles in organizing an unofficial primary election in 2020. We turn now to Sunny Cheung, who knew many of these activists. He was student leader during the protests in Hong Kong in 2019 and in 2020, but now lives in exile in the U.S. Sunny, thank you very much for joining us this morning. What does the outcome of this trial tell you, Sunny, about the way the rule of law in Hong Kong is headed?
SUNNY CHEUNG: I mean, I think the biggest lesson is that we have been very wrong about China. China is aggressive. And then Xi Jinping is really not the type of leader and person trying to respond to the people demand. And then, so we are very skeptical how he can lead the country, China, at the global stage. Especially, I mean, he wiped out the whole political opposition of Hong Kong, and Hong Kong was famous for its very vibrant, lively freedom and atmosphere as an international financial hub.
MARTÍNEZ: So what kind of public support does the pro-democracy movement have in Hong Kong right now?
CHEUNG: That's a good question. So in 2019, we had two million out of seven million population marching on the street. So two million people was a very massive number. But by seeing that and then Beijing government imposed a very Chinese-style national security law in order to crack down the whole movement. And especially after this mass arrest of the whole pro-democracy camp in Hong Kong, and they tried to silence everyone. So it's very difficult to have large-scale mobilization on the street right now. So this is something very brutal that we have to deal with.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you think the support will still be there but maybe not be as public?
CHEUNG: You are absolutely on spot. So if the goal for the Beijing government is trying to dismantle the momentum of the pro-democracy movement, trying to win the hearts of the generation to come, then it's actually an epic fail. I mean, by using all this kind of like brutal crackdown, by using this very barbarian style of governance, and then it does not really help Beijing government to achieve anything. Hong Kong people apparently are still very sympathetic to the movement, and they are very outrageous about the results of yesterday sentences.
MARTÍNEZ: The United States and other foreign governments have joined human rights groups criticizing these sentences. Sunny, do you think that kind of pressure matters to China?
CHEUNG: That's another good question. I mean, so the U.S. government has a statement to decry the behavior in Hong Kong. But I don't think that's enough. I mean, from time to time, I mean, international community has issued many statements, but we need concrete action. So if there's any policymakers hearing - listening to this broadcast, I think it's really important for them to have targeted sanction to deter China. They have done the same against Russia, but we need more to do something to contain China at this moment.
MARTÍNEZ: Sunny Cheung is an activist who helped lead pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong several years ago. Sunny, thank you.
CHEUNG: Thank you.
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